Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

how about a double neck with one neck a strat scale, 3 single coil pickups, and a trem bridge , and the other neck a les paul scale with two humbuckers and a TOM and stop tail ... bonus points if there is a suitable joining technique to make the LP half of the body mahogany with a maple cap and for the strat side body, just alder

That would be very cool, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. So far, this is my favorite.

I'm picturing a Les Paul Custom on top, and a Clapton-style Strat on the bottom....
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Yup, that is essentially the main issue. Now think how heavy the load for the top becomes when you add the Trem countersprings, essentially doubling the force tring to pull the bridge towards the neck (assuming that we apply current trem geometry to this application by using longer, softer springs and anchoring them to the neck block).... Wouldn´t be a huge problem if you didn´t have to reposition most of the braces and redesign the top to get the floyd in in the first place ... but some day I´ll figure out a way :laugh2:

I mean, I do have a playable 22 fret acoustic, but the body is significantly downsized, and I´d like to get more into the realm of a Dreadnaught /Hummingbird size but have the expressive tool of the Floyd onboard to boot...


hmmm.....
Dumb idea, which is what I think the reason behind the guitars I've seen is: Why not just slap those two extra frets there and be done with it? I mean, most classical guitars have 7 frets that are supposedly out of reach and players still still seem to be able to play them even if for no other reason than dumb tradition (I read a discussion on the mimf where apparently the effect of one cutaway is very small on the sound, small not negligible).

As for the Floyd... I hate them but I'd love to see a guitar with one just for the heck of it. Bigsby claims one of theirs can work on an acoustic... I just ask for how long and with what kind of light strings.

Regarding the Electric Portuguese Guitar (E.P.G.): it's mine! You can have a go at it in five years if I procrastinate too much lol.

The world needs a pear shaped twelve string guitar with a mahogany chambered body and neckthrough neck and a maple top, with beveled edges like an SG, a treble cutaway and the strings through the body.

I just reckon it needs a Rickenbacker like headstock as the traditional tuners aren't that great but you have to keep the black oval there :D

Yeah, I've been thinking about this ;)
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A wine red Les Paul Custom with maple top and ABR-1 bridge (none of the metal anchor posts).
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Dumb idea, which is what I think the reason behind the guitars I've seen is: Why not just slap those two extra frets there and be done with it? ...

Because this :
Surfcoustic.jpg

is already a body that´s barely bigger than a telecaster, and there still isn´t a floyd on it yet... and why destroy a perfectly good instrument when it´s obvious from the get go that at least 2 or 3 attempts have to fail critically before everything works right ;)

The biggest problem is that if you have a floyd and don´t recess it, you´re going to have holes in the top pretty fast. So it makes more sense to recess it. BUT: that´s also where some of the most critical parts of the bracing come together. and obviously we can´t just let those run through the rout, because then we´d damage those on up pulls... so as a result the bracing system has to be at least partly redesigned.

Then there´s the not so obvious issue of spring tension adjustments. Slipping in through the sound hole with a screwdriver isn't really a smart way to do it when the strings are on, but setup without strings is just as dumb :laugh2: So we either have to replace /redesign the spring array to make it easier to maintain, or we have to somehow make it serviceable, but a large hole in the back is not preferable on an acoustic if at all avoidable. Another downside is that the springs would have a tendency to immensely increase the guitar´s tendency to feed back in live settings, no es bueno :(

And of course a floyd weighs a boatload more than an ebony or rosewood bridge, and something is gonna have to compensate for those few hundred grams. It could be reduced by hacking off most of the sustain block, but that´s neither tonally beneficial nor would it have a positive effect on trem response I fear... and even without the block and arm the assemblöy is a few ounces heavier than an acoustic bridge.

It´s a pickle I´ve been going over in my head for years, and I´ll make it happen... just still some large kinks to work out. None of the engineering challenges are by themself unsurmountable, but the combination is a doozy ;)
 
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Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

The top would need to be totally divorced by structure but not sonically from the floyd bridge and mounting. Perhaps a mounting block stablized and connected to the neck via metallic or carbon fiber structures?

As to the weight of the Floyd; here alternative materials in place of the steel may be a possible solution. There are all kinds of alternate materials that could be tried with lesser weight and suitable resonation and strength properties. Holdsworth used to like aluminum sustain blocks.

The trick of future guitar as far as aesthetics, is to come up with an original design style and shape that will be timeless and look good. Things like the Parker Fly just look weird..........
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A one fret guitar so I can play all the nu-metal classics without hitting a bum note.: private:

I'd love to try acoustic guitars that are even bigger than jumbos. I'm sure someone makes them somewhere, I'd just want to see how it'd sound...
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

The top would need to be totally divorced by structure but not sonically from the floyd bridge and mounting. Perhaps a mounting block stablized and connected to the neck via metallic or carbon fiber structures?

So far this is the general direction I´m tending towards, yup... the main issue this brings up is the structural divorce/sonmc marriage, as much of the inertia transmission on a 2 point trem runs through exactly those 2 point

As to the weight of the Floyd; here alternative materials in place of the steel may be a possible solution. There are all kinds of alternate materials that could be tried with lesser weight and suitable resonation and strength properties. Holdsworth used to like aluminum sustain blocks.
Currently experimenting with different tropical woods to see what might work well from a structural standpoint, as on an acoustic the metallic character of a floyd would also be something that would need to be tamed if at all possible and I´m hoping a wood block will help there. Rosewood, Maple, mahogany and walnut are all out so far, the spring holes wear out too soon under what is certainly less than real world stress.... small metal sleeves epoxied into the block have so far lessened the problem, but not alleviated it.... Up next: Pau Ferro, in hopes that it will function true to it´s name :laugh2:

The trick of future guitar as far as aesthetics, is to come up with an original design style and shape that will be timeless and look good. Things like the Parker Fly just look weird..........

well, first and foremost I want to see if it´s truly possible, THEN I´ll figure out what exactly it has to look like to sound right ;)
 
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Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Because this :
Surfcoustic.jpg

is already a body that´s barely bigger than a telecaster, and there still isn´t a floyd on it yet... and why destroy a perfectly good instrument when it´s obvious from the get go that at least 2 or 3 attempts have to fail critically before everything works right ;)

The biggest problem is that if you have a floyd and don´t recess it, you´re going to have holes in the top pretty fast. So it makes more sense to recess it. BUT: that´s also where some of the most critical parts of the bracing come together. and obviously we can´t just let those run through the rout, because then we´d damage those on up pulls... so as a result the bracing system has to be at least partly redesigned.

Then there´s the not so obvious issue of spring tension adjustments. Slipping in through the sound hole with a screwdriver isn't really a smart way to do it when the strings are on, but setup without strings is just as dumb :laugh2: So we either have to replace /redesign the spring array to make it easier to maintain, or we have to somehow make it serviceable, but a large hole in the back is not preferable on an acoustic if at all avoidable. Another downside is that the springs would have a tendency to immensely increase the guitar´s tendency to feed back in live settings, no es bueno :(

And of course a floyd weighs a boatload more than an ebony or rosewood bridge, and something is gonna have to compensate for those few hundred grams. It could be reduced by hacking off most of the sustain block, but that´s neither tonally beneficial nor would it have a positive effect on trem response I fear... and even without the block and arm the assemblöy is a few ounces heavier than an acoustic bridge.

It´s a pickle I´ve been going over in my head for years, and I´ll make it happen... just still some large kinks to work out. None of the engineering challenges are by themself unsurmountable, but the combination is a doozy ;)
I was just reading about backless guitars. It could work and has, altough apparently the lows are not the high point of those instruments.

I'm not going to pretend I know how the heck you're gonna do it but I want you to. I can't play a Floyd if someone points a gun to my head but I'm sure someone would make awesome music with one.

PS: regarding the EPG... somebody beat me to it :

guitarraportuguesaelectrica.jpg
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

The Ibanez Euphoria (Steve vai's signature acoustic) have 24 frets,check it out.
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

^^ i know the guitars, but the fret access is ho hum and still no floyd, but admittedly together with my Charvel the closest any major manufacturer has come ;)
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Bamboo is one of the strongest and toughest light weight organic materials. Might be worth trying?
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Hadn´t thought of bamboo... might be useful for bracing or similar..... But this is an ongoing workanyway , it´s not something I expect to solve here and now, right now most of the work I´m doing is experimenting with different sustain block materials and thinking of ways to mount the floyd while retaining full structural integrity yet without sacrificing serviceability... I´m fairly certain that I´m gonna have to compromise, but where exactly is going to be the kicker....

1 thing is for sure: simply mounting a Floyd on a dreadnought will not work.. Hmm, I wonder how I found that out? :laugh2:
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

I demand pics of that lol

What about carbon fiber?
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A floyd would be great, but what about a compromise and use a Kahler.. I know it has a different feel and so on but that would eliminate a lot of the contruction process.
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A floyd would be great, but what about a compromise and use a Kahler.. I know it has a different feel and so on but that would eliminate a lot of the contruction process.

Considered that first about 10 years ago. Kahler mounting isn´t any easier, because you´ve only taken 2 mid sized posts and turned them into 4 normal screws positioned around the trem. So now there are 4 points that have to be beefed up instead of 2, and the rout still goes right through a structurally critical area. The frame keeping the top from vibrating as freely as possible by almost doubling it´s mass isn´t exactly to my taste, either ;)

A Kahler in general also has more mass than a Floyd but has less leeway for removing it... the difference between a kahler with Brass saddles and Cam or steel saddles and cam is negligible. The new aluminum frames help a wee bit, but nothing to Run home screaming hallelujah about..

But again, I didn´t intend to really go into this specific build topic in depth, but was interested in seeing what other people think is long overdue, as I´ve been pursuing this for the better part of a decade and have tried quite a few options as well as built /destroyed a few guitars to find out what little I already know about this quest. There isn´t really much that can be done here right now except for trial and error *edit* Good news is that by the time I´ve finally got it right Graphtech will probably have released their "Ghost" system fpr floyds, killing or at least wounding 2 birds with 1 stone: would warm up the tone a bit AND add a pickup to the axe. I think the whole thing turning into a box of icepicks is my biggest concern... ;)
 
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Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A guitar with 24 frets that has the neck pickup in the trad. position would be cool. That could be done if the pickup was mounted in the fretboard.
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

I'd like to see:
*more asymmetrical neck profiles

*cubic zirconia dot inlays on fretboards

*honest materials (if it's poplar, say it is, don't hide it, same for multi piece)

*more concern about the environment, finding woods that are common and sound good or at least planing two for each you take down

*use of shellac, waxes and similar finishes and improving on them

*more accessible designs in terms of neck joints, some heels are horrid (lp in my case)

*attention to those with smaller hands - that doesn't just mean female players or smaller scale lengths

*something new in the telecaster department - make it a fully contoured body, a different wiring arrangement or placement, something, upgrade it for the new millennium instead of having 30 variations of the same exact thing

*I want to see internal switches on guitars so you can change what the pots and switches do without resorting to soldering - some of us can't work an iron or know what to do or just can't afford a tech in a region where there are none. Also, quick connect systems for pickups. If you like soldering, or believe it takes away from the tone, take out those systems and connect them as you like.

*better use of hardware - don't cheap out on that, if I'm paying XXXX amount for an instrument I shouldn't have to shell out XXX to make it better (not as a personal preference but because the original parts suck).

*better management of wood - if it sucks don't sell it, if you have to sell it, mark it down, you're only doing a diservice to the brand by selling crap at custom prices.

*more string through designs without butt-ugly headstocks or crappy gimmicks, only one I can remember of the top of my head doing something like this is Scheter.

*less Gibson Gimmicks, that should be enough

*less Fender Gimmicks and elimination of trully different instruments, which is one step worse than Gibson.

*no more Ed Roman

*more bedroom amps that actually sound good

*less crappy "famous band" presets and over processed signals in digital amps and more attention to detail to classic songs if you have to ship those to make people believe you'll ever sound exactly like X
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

A guitar with 24 frets that has the neck pickup in the trad. position would be cool. That could be done if the pickup was mounted in the fretboard.
Maybe a strong pup under the fretboard? Would need a fb overhang tough which some people don't really like.
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Maybe a strong pup under the fretboard? Would need a fb overhang tough which some people don't really like.

not necessarily, could be internally mounted on a set neck or neckthru, but serviceability and adjustability would become an issue....

I would however like to see optical pickups, i imagine that could lead to numerous possibilites...
 
Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

Re: Things you´d like to see, but they either can't be or haven´t been done....

not necessarily, could be internally mounted on a set neck or neckthru, but serviceability and adjustability would become an issue....

I would however like to see optical pickups, i imagine that could lead to numerous possibilites...
My thoughs exatcly, I don't even like leds on boards cause I can't fathom how one would fix them let alone the pup itself lol

Weren't those messed with before and people found they were prone to interference from lights and shadows? Oh great, a new kind of hum lol.
 
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