Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

[uOpt]

I need to get the Blackface Deluxe kit first, but just to play with the thought.

If you'd want to spend $1000 on a medium-high/high gain amp, and the following choices were available, what's your poison?

• Soldano SL60 (probably no effects look and generally stripped)
• Soldano Avenger
• Medium VHT unit (some 60 watts, forgot what)
• VHT Deliverance 120
• The Egnater Combo with the 4 preamp modules (how well does this work, anyway?)
• Mesa Mk 2 (too smooth for me but whatever)
• ENGL Blackmore (anybody know what the gain stage and EQ layout on this one looks like?)

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Even being a Mesa guy, I've always liked the VHT amps, but a friend of mine dumped his Deliverance 120 for a Splawn Quick Rod and couldn't be happier. I don't really care for the "feel" of some of the Soldano amps I've tried.

I've seen some really killer deals on Marshall DSL half stacks lately, with the DSL 50 being the one I'd most like to have. Rectos aren't my thing, but I do like the Stilettos, and I've seen some Deuce heads for about a grand lately. I know these aren't on your list, but they do come up.

If you want to go Mesa, then try to find a good deal on the Mark III or Mark IV. Unless you've got a line on a 2-C or C+, the IIIs and IVs sound better to my old ears. You should be able to find some very good deals on some of the discontinued Mesa amps--Heartbreakers, Trem-O-Verbs, F-Series, Nomads and DC Series. The F-Series are very fender-y sounding, but I suspect the F-Series and the Heartbreaker might not have enough gain for you.. The Nomads have insane amounts of gain; and the others are just good all-around amps.

I also like the Lonestar Classic. I came away from an Andy Timmons Mesa Clinic really impressed with this amp, and surprised at the available gain. He uses both a Lonestar and a Stiletto in his rig.

Finding an amp that meets your needs is hard enough, but it can be a real trial when you're on a strict budget. All you can do is play lots of amps and hope something wonderful falls in your lap.

Good luck!

Bill

 

[uOpt]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Well, as far as high gain goes, I generally like neither the smooth sounds out of the "EQ at end" amps like the Boogie Mks, nor the very warm high-gain sounds as from a Bogner. Something more aggressive should be it, but less than a Dual Recto. I am sure Mesa has something but boy does their website suck and I can't find out

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Of the amps on your list, I have only played the Soldano Avenger, and the VHT.

Between those two, the Avenger wins.

 

[Koreth]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I'm generally happy with my Nomad 100 head. It doesn't have as much gain on tap as a Recto, but still plenty. The Nomads are the black sheep of the Mesa family and can be had for cheap. I bought mine and a 4x12 for $650. Admittedly, the pots in each channel were damaged, but after a small repair bill (<$50, IIRC), I had a fully working amp for less than $1000.

If you look hard enough, you could probably find a similar deal on one of the other discontinued Boogies as well.

 

[glassman]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I had a Soldano SL-60 Series II in the shop last week...it about ripped my head off! Great amp and it does have an effects loop. It came in wickedly overbiased and it still sounded great; very agressive but not what I would consider a modern tone. There was a lot of magic in the midrange. Even at full gain, it cleaned up completely with the guitar volume pot AND retained a usable volume.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

If you'd want to spend $1000 on a medium-high/high gain amp, and the following choices were available, what's your poison?

[*] VHT Deliverance 120
[*] Mesa Mk 2 (too smooth for me but whatever)

Of the ones you've mentioned . . .

But also do look into the DSL Marshalls . . . more gain than you think.
And if you want more gain than that, look into the Boogie Stiletto's, they have even more girt on tap than the DSL/TSL's.

Like stated before me . . . try the LoneStar Mesa too - much more gain than you think !

I just wonder how long before the first 5150/6505 recommendation comes in !



James

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I just wonder how long before the first 5150/6505 recommendation comes in !
James

Well, I was THINKIN' about it, LOL!

I have a lot of fondness for old Peavey amps, I guess even though I don't play one anymore. I still think that for a basic amp to use with pedals, the VTM 60 and VTM 120 are terrific values in today's market. If you want some channel switching, an old Triumph 120 has decent cleans and your choice of two gain channels. Of their newer amps, the Penta has good flexiblity--it's loud as hell, and you can get some in-your-face, aggressive tones--and I love the cosmetics. I also like the JSX--that might be my first amp choice if all my Mesas vanished.

I still think my Mark III 200-watt Coliseum is king of the hill, though. Every guitar I've ever played through it has sounded fantastic. It's not as flexible as the Mark IV when it comes to adjusting the power amp response options, but the sound! I'm too **** old to be draggin' a half-stack around, but I love it when I can play through that amp.

Bill

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Well, I was THINKIN' about it, LOL!

I have a lot of fondness for old Peavey amps, I guess even though I don't play one anymore. I still think that for a basic amp to use with pedals, the VTM 60 and VTM 120 are terrific values in today's market. If you want some channel switching, an old Triumph 120 has decent cleans and your choice of two gain channels. Of their newer amps, the Penta has good flexiblity--it's loud as hell, and you can get some in-your-face, aggressive tones--and I love the cosmetics. I also like the JSX--that might be my first amp choice if all my Mesas vanished.

I still think my Mark III 200-watt Coliseum is king of the hill, though. Every guitar I've ever played through it has sounded fantastic. It's not as flexible as the Mark IV when it comes to adjusting the power amp response options, but the sound! I'm too **** old to be draggin' a half-stack around, but I love it when I can play through that amp.

Bill

For my playing style, i would take a VTM over a 5150 anyday of th week !

Also a Mesa MK I with graphic EQ & push/pull knobs over a 5150, every time !

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Vintage-Me...in_0?hash=item518c9a9f1b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 - like this !

For me, the 5150's became just too generic sounding, because every metal band guitarist and his dog has one !



James

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Well, as far as high gain goes, I generally like neither the smooth sounds out of the "EQ at end" amps like the Boogie Mks, nor the very warm high-gain sounds as from a Bogner. Something more aggressive should be it, but less than a Dual Recto. I am sure Mesa has something but boy does their website suck and I can't find out

You may want to try out the discontinued Mesa F-Series, it has plenty of gain and is voiced more aggressively than Mesa's Express series (the F-Series' replacement).

I have an F-30, and just can't part with it.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I shouldn't have started this thread. Now I'm tempted to justify an expense with "the bad economy will allow me to put an amp I don't need on file" It's your fault!

I don't think the 5150 line is for me, what I want is fairly open, responsive medium-high gain. Neither too smooth nor too warm.

Do I figure that correctly that the ENGL Blackmore is more of a very high gain design, with the EQ at the end of the preamp like a boogie Mk? I sure hope I don't snipe it just because it has Blackmore in the name and because it was very expensive just a short time ago.

 

[LoFiBrian]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I had a Soldano SL-60 Series II in the shop last week...it about ripped my head off! Great amp and it does have an effects loop. It came in wickedly overbiased and it still sounded great; very agressive but not what I would consider a modern tone. There was a lot of magic in the midrange. Even at full gain, it cleaned up completely with the guitar volume pot AND retained a usable volume.

FYI these were made in japan for Soldano and they will not touch them anymore. I hear they are not as nice as a true Soldano. People tell me you are better off getting a choke modded Yamaha T-1000 Head.

 

[glassman]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

FYI these were made in japan for Soldano and they will not touch them anymore. I hear they are not as nice as a true Soldano. People tell me you are better off getting a choke modded Yamaha T-1000 Head.

I agree that the component quality is not up to par with the typical Soldano amp, with the exception on the transformers, but the tone is definitely there. I should mention that the component quality is on par with most of the better modern day amps such as Mesa and Genz Benz and surpasses the Marshall and Fender stuff. The amp was also very easy to service; unlike the other amps mentioned, but keeping in line with other Soldano amps. I wouldn't count this one out simply because it was made elsewhere and Soldano doesn't service it personally.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Another high-gain amp that i quite like, and might be had for 1K, is the Rivera Tre series amps !
Deff worth a look !


James

 

[Grandturk]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

You can get Boogie Mk II (A & B) for much less than $1,000 (USD anyway). I've AB'd my Mk II agaist Mk III's and Mk II C's and I don't hear all that much difference in sound. To be clear, I'm talking about the Lead channel and I play with the gain dimed - the Mk III has the flexibility of actually being able to get a clean and a dirty sound. Mind you, I'm talking combo's - not heads through 4x12's.

You can get JCM 900's on the cheap these days, and I think they are some fantastic sounding amps. I'm currently debating getting an old 2x12 combo 900 that I demo'd this weekend - oh, man that is MY sound...

 

[PVFan]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I shouldn't have started this thread.

I have 50 threads that made me say the same thing.

I don't think the 5150 line is for me, what I want is fairly open, responsive medium-high gain. Neither too smooth nor too warm.

Crunch Mode on the rhythm channel *is* that. Everybody seems to have 5150s pidgeonholed but don't seem to realize it has one of the best Marshall crunches there is, period. It is 100% that Marshall sound that has been ingrained in our heads. I had an amp tech with the 5150 crunch schematic on the wall next to a Marshall schematic, some Plexi, I don't remember. He had them on the wall so he could show people how they were exactly the same.

If you can find one of these from your list for $1000, after you get over the shock, and you've been resuscitated (if necessary), don't hesitate. I did not like the D120 at all. You might, but I bet you'd like one of his EL34 amps better like a CL or CLX, from your description of what you'd like to have.

Soldano SL60
Soldano Avenger
Medium VHT unit
VHT Deliverance 120

Economic and investment considerations aside, like flipping an amp gotten on a good deal for a great score - never mind that. My fave from your list would be the Avenger, but if there was a used 6505+ sitting next to it at a price a used 6505+ goes for usually, I would absolutely get the Peavey, both for what I want, and for what you want.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

NOne of the above for me: try a second hand jcm800 50w master volume or a MarkIII Jcm 900 100 or 50 w master volume. Medium/ heavy crunch. Classic rock tones.
Plus being real british made marshalls you can always resell for good bucks if they dont give you what you want.
I dont dig the engls treble. I find boogies are awesome but too 'Santana' sounding for me. Dont know about VHT. Soldanos are very 80s cock rock sounding (which may be cool!).

 

[uOpt]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

I don't want/need classic rock tones. I got a '79 50W MV JMP

 

[PVFan]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

you are using phrases like "open, medium-high gain" and "classic rock tones" like they mean the opposite of each other and as a result I have no idea what you are asking any more. The amps in your list, and most if not all that have been mentioned, will accomodate both descriptions, which I thought were pretty much the same thing.

But from your list I'd pick the Avenger. Probably because it is so very very similar to my 6505+. I have been astonished at the sounds they share. There are people who say they like one but not the other, and that makes no sense to me at all. I've accepted the common misconceptions about the Peavey, like those that copiously pop up made by ignorable people who say it's a generic metal amp at the whiff of its being mentioned, or make a big deal of its "poor build quality" that still doesn't matter after 18 years, statistically affecting hardly anyone.

Sorry, don't know what you're asking. If you're going to spend some time with these amps, I would encourage you, for your sake, to make one of them a 6505+ if for nothing else but to use as a baseline, but keep in mind that it's biased cold from the factory, and a proper bias for known good tubes in it makes a huge diff as it would for any amp.

Just trying to contribute, man.

 

[Tom Huff]

Re: Thinking out loud: high-gain amp used $1000

Even though you are now regretting starting this thread, I'd add that a Genz Benz El Diablo 60 head could be in running.

They have a very wide range of tonal possibilities and have a great clean channel as well as dirt channel.