Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Ah, the tight metal sound, my nemesis since I was a teenager. Heavy, powerful, but still very accurate and controllable. FWIW I really like my VHT/Fryette Sig:X, and there are a ton of other sounds in that amp too! It's a also one of the most reasonably priced amps in his line.

Though I don't consider myself an expert, here are some tips that I've picked up over the years:

1. Turn the damn gain knob down! Use even less gain if you're recording. Yes, it's a lot of fun to play with tons of gain, and it might sound good in your bedroom, but even the really good metal amps can turn into a loose, fizzy mess once you have a drummer, bass player, and singer to share the soundscape with.

2. The same goes for EQ. The guitar is a midrange instrument, and I don't believe scooping really does much to help you get heard. People like to scoop their mids in their bedroom because they're used to hearing the guitar with a lot of bass. In a band setting there is an actual bass player, and a guitarist is fighting a losing battle trying to compete for those low frequencies.

3. Arrangements! Listen to a lot of those metal albums with lots of tight "chugs". Most of the time, you're hearing the guitar, bass, and kick drum hitting at the same instant, providing a very pronounced and powerful sound. If you really want your palm muting to sound good, consider the fact that the bass and kick drum can do a lot to back you up.

4. This is very subjective and some may disagree with me, but I've noticed that different types of amps like different types of pickups. I know that my Sig:X likes lower output pickups for tighter sound, and there's enough gain built into that amp to make even a lipstick pickup sound heavy. A lot of other modern amps are built the same way. I have a feeling that amp makers voice their amps to sound good with guitars for sale in the store, which usually have stock and low-output pickups.

In my experience a '59 bridge is very effective for getting a tight sound with my VHT, and a JB (high output) still sounds good but gives a cracklier, crunchier sound. For reference I've tried this with both my SG and LP. A JCM 800 just begs for high output pickups and even an overdrive pedal, but it's got a lot less gain built into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but EMG's aren't high output pickups either, they just sound very clear and have a fast response (I don't have much experience with EMGs, but this is what a number of people have told me).

5. Once you start to try to control your gain stages, you'd be surprised what you can do to get a heavy, yet tight sound. I've seen a couple of cover bands over here that use blues-style combo amps, and use a couple of overdrive pedals to get a good balance of gain and tightness for their metal tones.

6. Don't ever forget: a lot of it is still in your hands!
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Recto's don't need an overdrive to do metal. Yeah, using a pedal makes it easier, but with the appropriate settings and a tight right hand it's not really necessary.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

On Astro Creep the set up was 2 Randall Century 200's and 1 Marshall VS100 Valvestate. A much better amp than the MG100 and dont forget some of the tracks were done running the line out through Seans SVT bass rigs also he did this particularly on Electric Head part 1

This is one of those cases dont buy a Randall and automatically think your gonna be able to cop that tone with it. He even said in interviews that listening to one of the 3 amps alone they didnt sound great that one was way too bassy and one was way thin but using them all together and mixing it was magic

The sound on La Sexorcisto was a Marshall JMP and a Rat Pedal

That's some cool info; thanks!

Ah, the tight metal sound, my nemesis since I was a teenager. Heavy, powerful, but still very accurate and controllable. FWIW I really like my VHT/Fryette Sig:X, and there are a ton of other sounds in that amp too! It's a also one of the most reasonably priced amps in his line.

Though I don't consider myself an expert, here are some tips that I've picked up over the years:

1. Turn the damn gain knob down! Use even less gain if you're recording. Yes, it's a lot of fun to play with tons of gain, and it might sound good in your bedroom, but even the really good metal amps can turn into a loose, fizzy mess once you have a drummer, bass player, and singer to share the soundscape with.

2. The same goes for EQ. The guitar is a midrange instrument, and I don't believe scooping really does much to help you get heard. People like to scoop their mids in their bedroom because they're used to hearing the guitar with a lot of bass. In a band setting there is an actual bass player, and a guitarist is fighting a losing battle trying to compete for those low frequencies.

3. Arrangements! Listen to a lot of those metal albums with lots of tight "chugs". Most of the time, you're hearing the guitar, bass, and kick drum hitting at the same instant, providing a very pronounced and powerful sound. If you really want your palm muting to sound good, consider the fact that the bass and kick drum can do a lot to back you up.

4. This is very subjective and some may disagree with me, but I've noticed that different types of amps like different types of pickups. I know that my Sig:X likes lower output pickups for tighter sound, and there's enough gain built into that amp to make even a lipstick pickup sound heavy. A lot of other modern amps are built the same way. I have a feeling that amp makers voice their amps to sound good with guitars for sale in the store, which usually have stock and low-output pickups.

In my experience a '59 bridge is very effective for getting a tight sound with my VHT, and a JB (high output) still sounds good but gives a cracklier, crunchier sound. For reference I've tried this with both my SG and LP. A JCM 800 just begs for high output pickups and even an overdrive pedal, but it's got a lot less gain built into it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but EMG's aren't high output pickups either, they just sound very clear and have a fast response (I don't have much experience with EMGs, but this is what a number of people have told me).

5. Once you start to try to control your gain stages, you'd be surprised what you can do to get a heavy, yet tight sound. I've seen a couple of cover bands over here that use blues-style combo amps, and use a couple of overdrive pedals to get a good balance of gain and tightness for their metal tones.

6. Don't ever forget: a lot of it is still in your hands!

Good stuff.
 
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Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but EMG's aren't high output pickups either, they just sound very clear and have a fast response (I don't have much experience with EMGs, but this is what a number of people have told me).

This is my experience. They'll drive an amplifier harder than a PAF... but relative to a lot of modern passives they're not all that hot.

However, the EQ and active nature of the of the 81 produces a very tight, percussive attack.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

1. Turn the damn gain knob down!!


I made it to this part.
Dude, you really need to read through this thread again. Threes many guys giving some great advice of OTT gain with some crushing amps. Not that your Sigx isnt one of them

I can't help but think you missed the train on this one entirely.
Really, whats the reference to a JCM800 with a pedal about in this thread?

Jolly chimed in, casue to be honest, I dont think he's got a clue what that JVM can do wide open.
 
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Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Recto's don't need an overdrive to do metal. Yeah, using a pedal makes it easier, but with the appropriate settings and a tight right hand it's not really necessary.

Perhaps not, but is a Tube Screamer/similar style pedal optimal?
I'd certainly say so.
Metal is mostly about the playing style, sure, but a Tube Screamer shapes the sound into something which fits easier into a mix (less high end fizz, less tubby bottom end, stronger, punchier core mids etc) which can't be done via the tone controls on the amp alone and is also better when trying to play styles where added tightness in the low end and lower mids are needed.

This is my experience. They'll drive an amplifier harder than a PAF... but relative to a lot of modern passives they're not all that hot.

However, the EQ and active nature of the of the 81 produces a very tight, percussive attack.

Correct.
The output levels of the EMG 81 are over exaggerated by a lot of people.
I tend to find the EMGs have just about the perfect level of output for more modern metal.
Not too hot, but not too low, just right where you need it.
I have a set of Blackouts (7 string set) and EMGs (707s, 7 string pickups) in two guitars, and the Blackouts are simply too hot
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Jolly chimed in, casue to be honest, I dont think he's got a clue what that JVM can do wide open.
And to be honest, I don't think you have a clue about guitars, amps, pickups, playing, recording, gigging, or anything really when it comes to guitars.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

And to be honest, I don't think you have a clue about guitars, amps, pickups, playing, recording, gigging, or anything really when it comes to guitars.

Im not gonna argue with the Alpha Dog.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

By a 'heavier sounding' amp, what do you mean exactly? Are you talking about a more menacing timbre? Do you mean a more of a metallic nature to the sounds like palm mutes?

I assume you're not talking about the amount of gain because every high gain amp, it's grandmother and her Chihuahua can do high levels of gain.

I take it you're looking for that special amp that doesn't go from too unaffected to too saturated with no controllable middle ground? (which is the problem I find with many of Bugera's amp copies). Something that on it's own has the exact right combination of evil, angry, energetic, electric and powerful and keeps it when you add it to other instruments?

You're in for a hell of a quest my friend. It's different for everyone and can take from years to decades to really carve your own sound.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Perhaps not, but is a Tube Screamer/similar style pedal optimal?
I'd certainly say so.
Metal is mostly about the playing style, sure, but a Tube Screamer shapes the sound into something which fits easier into a mix (less high end fizz, less tubby bottom end, stronger, punchier core mids etc) which can't be done via the tone controls on the amp alone and is also better when trying to play styles where added tightness in the low end and lower mids are needed.

Using a Tubescreamer is great if you're looking for the boosted Recto sound, which is a totally awesome sound if that's what you're into...

However the boosted Recto sound is not required to play modern, tight metal. Yeah, using a boost makes things easier, but with appropriate settings and a tight right hand it's not really necessary.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

I've always been a huge recto fan myself. Some of my favorites would be the Rect-O-Verb (Series 2), Trem-O-Verb, Roadster, and Roadking 2 due to their versatility, better cleans, and reverb.
 
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Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

1. Turn the damn gain knob down! Use even less gain if you're recording. Yes, it's a lot of fun to play with tons of gain, and it might sound good in your bedroom, but even the really good metal amps can turn into a loose, fizzy mess once you have a drummer, bass player, and singer to share the soundscape with.

Totally. I experienced this when tweaking my Roadster when I first got it. I was trying to squeeze as much thick distortion out of channel 3 as I could before the tone suffered. I found that anything past 3 o'clock was a thin/fizzy mess. Now I set my gain just under 3 o'clock.
 
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Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

Totally. I experienced this when tweaking my Roadster when I first got it. I was trying to squeeze as much thick distortion out of channel 3 as I could before the tone suffered. I found that anything past 3 o'clock was a thin/fizzy mess. Now I set my gain just under 3 o'clock.

I set mine around 12:00, although I'll bump it up to 1:00 if I'm playing at low volumes. It may sound a bit clean if you're used to having the gain at 3:00, but once you get used to it you get a lot more punch and clarity, plus it really reacts well to a heavy pick attack.

I also drop the bass on modern to somewhere between 9:00 and 10:00. Some people may find this sounds a tad too thin, but IMO it's still plenty and it does a lot for tightening the bottom end.

Not saying my settings are a) right, or b) better than yours... just tossing ideas out into the wild that you can try or ignore... whatever your fancy.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

I set mine around 12:00, although I'll bump it up to 1:00 if I'm playing at low volumes. It may sound a bit clean if you're used to having the gain at 3:00, but once you get used to it you get a lot more punch and clarity, plus it really reacts well to a heavy pick attack.

I also drop the bass on modern to somewhere between 9:00 and 10:00. Some people may find this sounds a tad too thin, but IMO it's still plenty and it does a lot for tightening the bottom end.

Not saying my settings are a) right, or b) better than yours... just tossing ideas out into the wild that you can try or ignore... whatever your fancy.

Cool man I'll have to give that a try. :)
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

If you want a HEAVY amp, get a Randall Rm100... That amp weighs well over 70 pbs.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

1. Turn the damn gain knob down!

3. Arrangements! Listen to a lot of those metal albums with lots of tight "chugs". Most of the time, you're hearing the guitar, bass, and kick drum hitting at the same instant, providing a very pronounced and powerful sound. If you really want your palm muting to sound good, consider the fact that the bass and kick drum can do a lot to back you up.

These are the two best points made in this thread...the real heavies come from the WHOLE BAND hitting it tightly, with aggression. The guitar by itself just can't be as heavy, no matter which amp and how evil the distortion sound is, as a tight band kicking ass.
 
Re: Which High Gain Amp for you and Why?

in 1992 - Ampeg VL1002 - I wanted to have more distortion in a big tube amp than anyone

in 1993 - Bogner Ecstacy - I wanted to have more useful distortion in a great big tube amp than anyone. This amp, with '90s tubes, is/was the hands-down most evil amp of all time. More snappy thump than anything else. If it could time travel to now, in its stool you'd find chunks of Herberts and VH4s, Kranks, Coreblades, Pittbulls, Splawns, XXXs, even 5150s and SLOs, and definitely every post-2000 XTC and Uberschall ever shipped. This fudger goes on the Alpha Godzilla Pedestal.

... 10 years later, I had to replace that 93 Bogner. After DSLs and TSLs and XXXs and 5150s and Hot Rod+s and a few VHTs, and then, and then ...

... 8 years after all that I am no longer relevant to this thread. Now I'm on about small amps, drive pedals, and speaker swapping. Dog will hunt.
 
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