To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

S

spleenharvester

New member
Current specs:
Slash Alnico II Bridge pickup in neck
Tonerider Generator in bridge
Seymour Duncan Hot Rails in middle

All inside a Yamaha RG212X. Amp is a Vox VT40+. Also have a heavily modded DS-1.

Context: Being a student unable to secure a job is an issue. I'm waiting for a couple of months time for birthday/christmas and will probably drop all money on the stuff but not sure how much I will even get (Usually about £150 on birthday and the same on Christmas if I remember correctly). I guess I could get £120 or so by selling the Vox and its leather case.

Now. As you can see my pickups are absolutely fine. But the body is tragic, no sustain and completely dull sounding. Was very easily overwhelmed by a beaten up old Squier college had.

The amp, being a DSP amp, also sounds pretty bad at the higher volumes. It's not so bad at lower volumes but it starts to lose its nice qualities further up.

So should I be:

a) Fishing for a new guitar body or:
b) Looking to trade+£££cash my VT40+ for a Marshall DSL401 or similar?

I'm not sure which body to get either. Something along the lines of an RG550 possibly because that looks bloody nice and the locking nuts etc would be great for my playing style (cover Nirvana etc etc).

I'm also kind of worried if I upgrade both on £300 as opposed to just say, an amazing amp, I'll just have to do exactly the same later down the line.

Cheers
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Are you sure your guitar is that bad ? Have you played it through a decent amp ? If the guitar is really bad how do you know that the pickups are okay ? I've played a few cheap Yamahas and they are usually very good for the money. Remember - a great guitar through a mediocre amp won't sound as good as a mediocre guitar through a great amp.

I think you are expecting a bit much if you think you can buy an 'amazing' amp for £300 - £400. At this price you would be better off looking at used gear. If you could hold out and save up £600 you could get a Cornford Roadhouse from Andertons which IS an amazing amp for not a whole lot of money. Can't you get some part time work ?
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

What Richard said. Between a decent amp and a decent guitar go for the upgrade to the amp every time. The amp will have much more of an impact on your sound.

Unless the guitar is really awful, at this stage you should get much more benefit from holding off, look for a beter amp in the meantime and sell the Vox once you´ve decided.
Afterwards if you still feel the guitar doesn´t serve well you can look at upgrading further down the line.

You can always test this theory yourself...bring your guitar into shops and try your guitar through other amps. I bet it won´t impede you from finding some nice sounds. Try a great guitar through a crappy amp though and you´ll be lucky to get any decent sounds.

I don´t think you´ll find an amazing amp or an amazing guitar at that price, but you should be able to pick up a pretty decent sounding amp if you´re realistic and try everything in your price range.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

The Yamaha RGX and Pacifica models have non-standard neck pocket shapes and dimensions. Not much else will fit without modification and/or shimming.

The weak spots on the budget Yams are the machineheads and the bridge. In my opinion, the single biggest improvement to your existing guitar, pedal and amp outfit is a better quality bridge. Gotoh, Wilkinson, Callaham, whoever.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Sounds very much like the amp is the way to go then.

Just for clarification, by body I meant the body+neck, just bad wording on my part :p

I also forgot to mention it has a PAC-012 neck, the tuners on that aren't too bad. But the guitar is just horrible, can easily tell there's next to no sustain on the thing.

The pickups cost a damn fair bit, and the Hot Rail was used by Kurt Cobain quite extensively, so I have confidence in those. It's just body+amp, and I'm not sure which to go for first.

What's a good amp for, £300 and £400 respectively? Just need to figure out how much I'll get.

EDIT: I did forget to clarify, I'm looking at used gear. Is a DSL401 a good way to go?
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

I would very much like to see photographs of this mongrel Yamaha guitar.

My experience with budget Yamaha stringed instruments has always been that the woodwork is exemplary. (Okay. Maybe not on the 0-series.) When building to a price point, Yamaha tends to skimp on the hardware and electronics.

Post some pics, bro.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

spleenharvester said:
Current specs:
Slash Alnico II Bridge pickup in neck
Tonerider Generator in bridge
Seymour Duncan Hot Rails in middle

All inside a Yamaha RG212X. Amp is a Vox VT40+. Also have a heavily modded DS-1.

Context: Being a student unable to secure a job is an issue. I'm waiting for a couple of months time for birthday/christmas and will probably drop all money on the stuff but not sure how much I will even get (Usually about £150 on birthday and the same on Christmas if I remember correctly). I guess I could get £120 or so by selling the Vox and its leather case.

Now. As you can see my pickups are absolutely fine. But the body is tragic, no sustain and completely dull sounding. Was very easily overwhelmed by a beaten up old Squier college had.

The amp, being a DSP amp, also sounds pretty bad at the higher volumes. It's not so bad at lower volumes but it starts to lose its nice qualities further up.

So should I be:

a) Fishing for a new guitar body or:
b) Looking to trade+£££cash my VT40+ for a Marshall DSL401 or similar?

I'm not sure which body to get either. Something along the lines of an RG550 possibly because that looks bloody nice and the locking nuts etc would be great for my playing style (cover Nirvana etc etc).

I'm also kind of worried if I upgrade both on £300 as opposed to just say, an amazing amp, I'll just have to do exactly the same later down the line.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I did a little research on what you gave and your amp seems fine, might do with with a speaker swap, but that's it. here's a local celebrity of yours demoing the vox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIYtnbHIbY .


As far as your guitar goes i don't know but all i can suggest if you're really unhappy with put the original pups back in and try and trade it to a hock shop for a better used guitar you'll like better, things don't have to be new or brand name to be good.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Funkfingers said:
I would very much like to see photographs of this mongrel Yamaha guitar.

My experience with budget Yamaha stringed instruments has always been that the woodwork is exemplary. (Okay. Maybe not on the 0-series.) When building to a price point, Yamaha tends to skimp on the hardware and electronics.

Post some pics, bro.
Click to expand...

I shall later on soon as I'm home! The hardware on the RGX was indeed very very poor, the tuners and bridge were also swapped which has neatened things up a bit. But still pretty bad. EDIT: Electronics have been swapped out too might I add.

I got the RGX for £40 to begin with on local pickup, just to get me by until I could afford something better.

SwampRocker said:
I did a little research on what you gave and your amp seems fine, might do with with a speaker swap, but that's it. here's a local celebrity of yours demoing the vox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIYtnbHIbY .


As far as your guitar goes i don't know but all i can suggest if you're really unhappy with put the original pups back in and try and trade it to a hock shop for a better used guitar you'll like better, things don't have to be new or brand name to be good.
Click to expand...

That was probably on low volumes, it doesn't actually sound too bad with the master on 9'oclock, really loses its drive after that. I was toying with the idea of swapping speakers before but most people I speak to didn't think it was worth doing on a DSP amp, so I wasn't sure what to do.

I will probably end up doing that sooner or later if I can find a good shop. My local place has awful prices, usually higher than new, it's rediculous.
 
Last edited:
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

we'll I wish you all the best and what ever you get post pics
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Cheers mate. :)

Decided I'm going to go for the body/neck upgrade first, it's a horrible instrument to physically play let alone listen to.

Want S/S/S or H/S/H config (that would fit in with my current P/Us), or maybe S/S/H. Want a thick distortion sound basically, kind of like in Nirvana's early days before Kurt started overusing that horrible DS-1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc3XnHDC5mM

As well as that, I want something comfortable to play, that I can put my back into. Am I right in thinking something superstrat-based like the RG550 is what I'm looking for?

Also doesn't need to be fantastic looking. It's a nice perk but as long as I can thrash it I'm not really bothered.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Most people forget that amps are actually the second most contributing factor to tone. In this order Effects> Amps> Pickups. I'd take your guitar down to a shop and test out different amps. For all you know (the vox isn't that great), the guitar has potential, it just isn't being tapped into.

Check this video out to see why effects are more contributing to tone than amps and pickups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heHx03YdXEM
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

tonello said:
Most people forget that amps are actually the second most contributing factor to tone. In this order Effects> Amps> Pickups. I'd take your guitar down to a shop and test out different amps. For all you know (the vox isn't that great), the guitar has potential, it just isn't being tapped into.

Check this video out to see why effects are more contributing to tone than amps and pickups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heHx03YdXEM
Click to expand...

I kind of want that pedal now. Just it seems to have a little too much gain, but then again the people deimo-ing it scoop the mids and dime the gain to ten. The first demo sounded terrible and grating, but I can see a lot of potential in this pedal. Probably great for lower output pups if you don't scoop mids/max gain.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Still hoping to see pics of this Yamaha Bitsa.

I suspect that almost everything that is unsatisfactory about the instrument is a product of its Dogbreath fulcrum vibrato bridge and the way that this has been set up to cope with the mismatched neck.

In my opinion, the guitar can be made playable and to sound good for sensible money.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Funkfingers said:
Still hoping to see pics of this Yamaha Bitsa.

I suspect that almost everything that is unsatisfactory about the instrument is a product of its Dogbreath fulcrum vibrato bridge and the way that this has been set up to cope with the mismatched neck.

In my opinion, the guitar can be made playable and to sound good for sensible money.
Click to expand...

But its not what he wants to do. You can see that. He wants to replace the body and neck... So i say let him have at it.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

tonello said:
Most people forget that amps are actually the second most contributing factor to tone. In this order Effects> Amps> Pickups. I'd take your guitar down to a shop and test out different amps. For all you know (the vox isn't that great), the guitar has potential, it just isn't being tapped into.

Check this video out to see why effects are more contributing to tone than amps and pickups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heHx03YdXEM
Click to expand...

So true. That box could make even a great amp sound bad.

Sounds like he's playing thru a 1960s transistor radio.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Normally I would suggest get a good amp first to get improved tone.

In your case I would say get a guitar that you will enjoy playing first, then worry about getting good tone (meaning...get a good amp).

Doesn't do any good to have a great amp if you can't stand playing your guitar.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Myaccount876 said:
I kind of want that pedal now. Just it seems to have a little too much gain, but then again the people deimo-ing it scoop the mids and dime the gain to ten. The first demo sounded terrible and grating, but I can see a lot of potential in this pedal. Probably great for lower output pups if you don't scoop mids/max gain.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't suggest it. I've owned it and it got a great AJFA era Metallica tone when took out the bass completely (anyone?) but it wasn't a really good pedal. Then again, I'm more of a fuzz kind of guy anyways. one of my lead guitarists (who isn't nearly as much of a pedal junkie as me) uses a Boss Metal Zone (or Metal Core) and a Digitech Grunge pedal and those are probably the best distortion (not fuzz or overdrive, there's a difference) pedals I've heard. For me, I use a Z.Vex Fuzz Factory, a Way Huge Swollen Pickle, and a Dunlop Joe Bonamassa Fuzz Face.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

The big problem with DSP amps is the user: they tweak for hours to get the best "turn that down!" bedroom tone, and think it will sound the same when turned up without further tweaking.

Set your volume as loud as you want it, then tweak the EQ. It's going to sound smooth at low volumes when the speaker is barely moving, but once the speaker starts moving like it should, you're going to have more grain, grit, and rattle that you're not used to. Doesn't matter if it's a Vox or a Marshall, the effect is the same. I have my ADA MP-1 set for two different targets: one for the mixer into the computer and one for my head+cab, because the mixer doesn't react like a speaker, and they sound identical because the EQs are set for their respective targets.
 
Re: To upgrade first: Guitar body, or amp?

Your amp is more important in determining your tone IMO. Most any guitar will sound great through a great sounding amp. I say get an amp that you love, first and foremost.

FWIW, I've never met a guitar that sounded bad through a Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb. They're good all-purpose, simple to control, and affordable amps. I haven't tried the Princeton reissues (I play a '68), but the Deluxe RIs sound good to me.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Chris Pile
Old guitar body, new guitar neck
Replies
4
Views
149
Chris Pile
Chris Pile
C
Staining body
Replies
10
Views
430
Chris Pile
Chris Pile
C
Lessons learned in my first week trying to build guitars
2 3
Replies
56
Views
2K
jeremy
jeremy
Z
Help me create an unusual guitar
Replies
9
Views
275
GuitarDoc
G
Ascension
NOS Wasburn Chicago Custom body and neck project
Replies
10
Views
732
orpheo
O
Back
Top