Tonal common sense

[JammerMatt]

Snappy, twangy, Ice-picky, killer midrange growl, boomy bottom end, nice upper-mid peak, full midrange, buttery bottom end, and harmonics galore... Not to mention other superlatives.

I'm guessing that to hear these qualities takes a long time, and some close listening, and a tuned ear. What I hear is "bwaaaaaaah" and my head is vibrating. It either sounds good to me, or not so good.

If you put a Custom next to a JB next to a Distortion through a Marshall or a Boogie or a Soldano, I probably couldn't tell you which is which. I might be able to say, "oh, this one is more screechy" or "this one's more mellow." But, I tell you I'd have to listen real hard.

Some of you guys really do a good job of describing the tonal characteristics of a certain amp or a certain pickup/guitar combination. I just hear "bwaaaah" with very very subtle differences. I'm wondering if my ear is crap, or if it's just not refined. Keep in mind I've been seriously playing for only about 4 years or so. So, does tonal common sense come in time, or are you born with (or without) it?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Tonal common sense

The more you listen, Matt, the more your ear will become "tuned", as you say. As you know, we very crudely divide the frequency spectrum into three categories: treble, midrange, and bass. Person A may listen to a recording and say "what a warm sounding recording", and Person B will say "the top end is completely rolled off!" So it's important to know that sonic differences are filtered by your personal experience, too. What most guitarists consider to be a nice tone that will cut through a mix, is probably really midrange heavy in actuality, for example.
My advice: keep listening and develop your own criteria. There are certain sounds which are very pleasing, and you will find nice little catch phrases to attach to them "growl", "snap", "twang", "halo", "bloom", etc. And you will also hear sounds not so pleasing, where you will hear "brittle", "shrill", "muffled", "bloated", "wooly", etc.

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Tonal common sense

i guess it'd be hard to tell differences between amps but marshall and mesa each have their own distinct tone.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tonal common sense

Yeah, it just comes down to hearing more gear. Owning a lot of different amps has made my ear pretty keen on the subtle differences. A guy who's owned lots of pickups will be good at hearing even MORE subtle differences between guitar tones.
Players today have one advantage that older players didn't have....soundclips you can toggle between online! Also, modeling amps, which do a decent job of showing you the differences between every amp or effect model on their rotary knob. The problem there is that all the British/Marshall models sound terrible compared to the real thing. Some of the clean amps and Recto models are a little closer in tone.
I remember when I was a kid, hearing guys talk about all the gear, and I just had to imagine how it sounded. What a luxury to be able to hear soundclips of nearly every manufacturer now! What a luxury to have a pro recording studio for less than $1000!
Remember when 4 song demos cost thousands, and still sounded like they were recorded on a Tascam?

 

[some_dude]

Re: Tonal common sense

I'm wondering if my ear is crap, or if it's just not refined. Keep in mind I've been seriously playing for only about 4 years or so. So, does tonal common sense come in time, or are you born with (or without) it?

I just make sh*t up. :blackeye:


Seriously though, it's all subjective and only becomes meaningful when comparing a known with an unknown. Me telling someone this new pickup has more upper mid bite than the old one doesn't mean jack sh*t if you don't know what the old one sounded like.

 

[texasguitarslinger]

Re: Tonal common sense

Seriously though, it's all subjective and only becomes meaningful when comparing a known with an unknown. Me telling someone this new pickup has more upper mid bite than the old one doesn't mean jack sh*t if you don't know what the old one sounded like.

+1 it's totally subjective.

 

[jcarlos]

Re: Tonal common sense

Well, I thought my Triple XXX was the bomb until I fired up a Mojave, then a Bad Cat, Germino, Budda, Bogner.......Fuchs...Cornford etc....
There is a difference in how dynamics and tones that come out of various amps. Also there different ways to get sound of these amps. Like the Germinos need to be cranked to get that plexi sound... and it's beautiful, but it's too loud for me. It's what ever meets your needs. I think it would motivate me to play more. End the end, it's in the fingers period.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Tonal common sense

My advice: keep listening and develop your own criteria. There are certain sounds which are very pleasing, and you will find nice little catch phrases to attach to them "growl", "snap", "twang", "halo", "bloom", etc. And you will also hear sounds not so pleasing, where you will hear "brittle", "shrill", "muffled", "bloated", "wooly", etc.

I'll keep listening. Funny how sound changes. I sorta consider the Lynch "Lock and Key" sound to be THE sound that is most pleasing to my ear. But, when you go and listen to the Dokken CD's back to back to back you can really hear a tonal difference over time. Seemed to start out rather shrill (may I say "dry") on the early albums, but got nicer up to L&K, and then sounded a little more shrill for BFTA, and then was back to a different sound for the Lynch Mob stuff. Today whilst commuting I was listening to Scorps and noticed something I had never noticed... that to my ear the Jabs sound seems sort of shrill. Not in a bad way... it's just HIS sound I suppose. It's not the sound I'm after, but still I like it in a way.

Yeah, it just comes down to hearing more gear. .......and still sounded like they were recorded on a Tascam?

Joneser, your comment about the modeling amps' treatment of Marshalls gives me great hope. With my Line6, I'm able to get a "Marshall JCM800" tone that I'm fairly happy with, but it doesn't really go "bwaaaaah" like I'm thinking it should. Something's missing. I was concerned for awhile thinking that maybe it was me, or my guitar... but hearing this reinforces my belief that you can't get Marshall without a Marshall. But, as I've discussed with you before, it's just a matter of time before the real deal (vertical input 800 or Silver Jub) sits in my room. I am looking forward to that day when I can drink from the holy grail of 80's tone!!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Tonal common sense

I am looking forward to that day when I can drink from the holy grail of 80's tone!!

Too bad you're not on the east coast, Matt. I'd gladly let you borrow my JCM800 in exchange for free Guinness.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tonal common sense

I think JammerMatt's right. When it comes to tone, it's either:

Pleasant
Unpleasant
Some combination of the two
Neutral

"Ice Pick" highs are unpleasant to me...they hurt my ears.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Tonal common sense

Too bad you're not on the east coast, Matt. I'd gladly let you borrow my JCM800 in exchange for free Guinness.

Well, buddy. I don't see any trips to the east coast in the very near future. However, if TO ever makes it to the west coast, I'll buy you a couple Guinnesses, and I'll lurk during the soundcheck.

 

[matt99camero]

Re: Tonal common sense

As one Matt to another I'm in the same boat. Someone will say to me "you hear this or you hear that?" and I don't hear a dang thing that they are talking about. It either sounds good or bad to me. I just turn the knobs till I get something I like. I'm just getting to the point where I can tune by ear so hopefully I'm getting better. I was in a choir that won state four years in a row and I have a very trained ear when it comes to singing, but I have been singing since I could talk basically and only playing for about 2 years so I know it will come with time. I think everyone has some ability to train their ears to hear things in guitars or singing but alot of it is also God given.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Tonal common sense

Matt99,

Oh my gosh your avatar is great! However, I'm at work GD-it!! I'm gonna get killed!

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Tonal common sense

i'll take that deal with the jcm 800 TO!!!!!!!

sure im to young, but i'll find a way!!!!!!