Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
I'm talking in a real world situation where a player will be switching similar equipment. Not in la-la land.
Tone? Have to say I agree with a lot of this
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Obsessive Compulsive
New member
Let's not lie to ourselves. In the context of electric guitar especially with distortion, the fingers are probably responsible for 10 percent of the overall tone; the rest blame it on the amps, pedals, processing, and half naked chicks coming in and out of the studio during takes. That's the truth, live with it.
One exception maybe Allan Holdsworth. Whatever he played always sounded like a synth to me.
One exception maybe Allan Holdsworth. Whatever he played always sounded like a synth to me.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
I thought it would be obvious (not comparing apples w/ oranges) ...but apparently It has to be spelled out for you :bigthumb:
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
I agree with you ,except that I'd change that 10% for fingers to about 60-70% (at least)....
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
which statement & why falsely?
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Ok...I may have missed that/glossed over it.. "tone is in the fingers comparing the same rig" (which is precisely what Glenn was doing/talking about in the OP..and hence what I was referrencing in all my posts) sounds fine to me..
CaptainWhizz
New member
Just to confirm, you think 60-70% of tone is in the fingers? So your tone is 60-70% the same whatever guitar gear you play through? Guitar, scale length, bridge type, pickups, pots, cables, pedals, preamp, power amp, cabinet, speaker, etc. are only at most 40% between all of them?
The phrase “tone is in the fingers” is pretty cut and dried. If it’s not literally true, it’s not true, and therefore it’s false.
The phrase isn’t “tone is 60-70% in the fingers”, or “tone is in how the player plays”. The phrase is “tone is in the fingers”. People can play guitar without fingers, as I said much earlier on. They still have tone.
People might as well say “tone is in the soul”, then at least it would be hard to take literally.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
I just said that to rile him (my buddy Cumpulsive) up :lmao:
But yeah I don't think I can can quanitify the exact impact fingers (or anything else) has on tone. But as far as I'm concerned they (players) have the most impact, which is what I've said from the start & I stick to it. Obviously anyone and everyone's free to disagree with me to w/e extent they'd like to ..opinions differ, but that's mine.
But yeah I don't think I can can quanitify the exact impact fingers (or anything else) has on tone. But as far as I'm concerned they (players) have the most impact, which is what I've said from the start & I stick to it. Obviously anyone and everyone's free to disagree with me to w/e extent they'd like to ..opinions differ, but that's mine.
Obsessive Compulsive
New member
Captainwhizz: Welcome to the Twilight Zone. You are fighting a losing battle. Get out while you can...lol. Don't tell me I didn't warn ya...lol.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
'Tone is in the fingers' is a figure of speech (like when you say someone's a "tone monster" or a "guitar wizard" "Shred demon" etc. lol ..who takes that literally?) It just translates to a player and the individuality/approach/oddities/nuances/intricacies/feel he as a player imparts to his tone in general ..it's not literally "in his fingers" so you can cut them off and stitch them onto some other guy and have an instant tone transfer. I would have thought that was obvious...
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
If you're going to be that pedantic about things, then I think we can all agree that tone is in the electricity. Without electricity, there's no sound worth mentioning coming from an electric guitar. 'Tone is in the fingers' is a metaphor - and refers to everything that goes into a person's personal playing decisions.
As far as percentages go I'd say that the pick angle, location of picking on the string, use of pick vs fingers, timing, choice of legato vs picked part, type of vibrato used, choice of note location on the fretboard and dynamics from hitting the strings . . . all of that matters more than the gear used when talking about tone. So for 'fingers' I'd put the amount at half of your tone at least. Then you've got maybe 20% from the speaker, 15% from amp and pedals,10% from pickups, and 5% from guitar construction (scale length/bridge type, wood used).
Gear matters, and can certainly change the sound that you hear a lot . . . but what and how you play always matters more.
CaptainWhizz
New member
So, if it’s a figure of speech, then we can all agree that the phrase “tone is in the fingers” is not true.
Thank you.
CaptainWhizz
New member
Exactly. What and how you play. Not whose fingers play it. Thank you.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
As I said in my previous post, what and how you play is what people mean when they say 'tone is in the fingers'. It's called a metaphor - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor . Are you really not understanding this?
CaptainWhizz
New member
I understand perfectly. You’ve agreed with me that what is being played. and how it is played, make the difference.
However, some people seem to believe that “tone is in the fingers” means that no two players can have the same guitar tone, even if they play the same exact same thing the exact same way; or that it is impossible for two guitarists to play a piece of music the same way.
So it appears that people do literally think that two players can never have the same guitar tone because they have different fingers.
The metaphor is confusing people, which is why I think it’s harmful to the guitar-playing community.
The fact that you don’t think I understand it's a metaphor proves that you believe it could confuse someone.
However, some people seem to believe that “tone is in the fingers” means that no two players can have the same guitar tone, even if they play the same exact same thing the exact same way; or that it is impossible for two guitarists to play a piece of music the same way.
So it appears that people do literally think that two players can never have the same guitar tone because they have different fingers.
The metaphor is confusing people, which is why I think it’s harmful to the guitar-playing community.
The fact that you don’t think I understand it's a metaphor proves that you believe it could confuse someone.
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GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
If two players learn to play a piece in exactly the same manner technically, then I agree that gear is going to be the only difference in tone. This is certainly possible for some stuff, but with more complex pieces of music it becomes less and less likely.
Only a fantastically stupid person (or maybe someone who doesn't speak English natively) would have difficulty with the 'tone is in the fingers' metaphor. I wasn't sure where you stood on this, but am glad to find out it isn't true for you.
'Tone is in the equipment' is a metaphor/figure of speech too.
Don't believe me? Tell me how much tone your equipment makes without someone playing the guitar. I'd wager not very much.
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