"Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

I was going to reply to this thread, but Zhlangquinn (sp! ), Mike S, Jzzerlbn and especially Hot Grits said it all!

I'm going home to JAM!!
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

I think the type of pick and picking technique make a HUUUUGE difference. Way-way-way-way-way more than 1%. More like 50% at least. String gauge will also make a big difference.

I guess I'm all alone in my group on this topic -- tone is not "in the fingers" (if by that you mean the fretting hand), it's in the pick, or picking fingers if you're a fingerstyle player.

The touch with the pick and where you it the string (near neck, near bridge, somewhere in between), and what angle you hit the string with said pick, how you hold the pick, and the thickness/shape/flexibility of the pick and the material the pick is made of is crucial. It's why if you gave Jimmy Page a Strat, he would still sound like Jimmy Page, the only difference being he would sound like Jimmy Page playing a Strat. Give EVH an L5 and he'll still sound like EVH, but like EVH on an archtop. (By the way, I've heard EVH is actually pretty decent jazz player.)

Bigger strings will give you a bigger tone as will thicker no-flex picks. Folks trying to nail the SRV tone are constantly frustrated by the fact that he used stock +/-6k Fender pu's, which will sound huge with 11's or 12's, which is what SRV used. But most players are too wimpy to actually try to get used to 11's or 12's on a Strat so they pull their hair out wondering why they can't get his big-a$$ tone with 9's and a flimsy onion-skin pick.

And all this is, of course, leaving aside note choices and phrasing, string bends, blah-blah., which are obviously also crucial for a signature sound, but your signature tone (or timbre or whatever you wanna call it) is determined by how, where, and with what you hit those strings.

I've said it many times but YOUR PICK is by far the most under-rated piece of gear you will ever own. The lack of understanding of what should be an obvious point is a big part of what makes so many potentially good players mediocre. They spend thousands on gear and totally ignore their pick and their picking technique. It's all downstrokes bashing the string as hard as they can, always at the same spot on the string, always at the same angle, whether the passage of the song is supposed to be massive power chords or something subtle and sweet. And they wonder why they can't get a variety of tones and textures.

They also have the pick hanging so far out of their thumb and finger that it's wonder it doesn't fly across the room on every other stroke. They never learn to tuck the pick in deeper into their fingers with maybe at most 20% of it showing or how to hold it right (most hold it like they're holding up a dead rat by the tail). So they have no leverage and have to wear their picking hand out to the point of carpal tunnel syndrome trying to get enough pressure to drive the amp the way the want and so they despair of bothering with learning alternate picking, cross picking, string skipping, etc., all techniques that would allow them to really fly.

Don't get me wrong, gear very much does matter, but no amount of gear would make Al DiMeola sound like Marty Friedman, or vice versa.

I suppose I'm literally getting "picky" but seriously folks, please pay attention to your PICKS and how you use them. If you think I'm a little over the top, think about how rare it is to see a thread about picks here or in almost any guitar-oriented forum. The color of a pickguard gets way more attention than picks in here. There is no gear in the world that will fix a bad choice of pick -- or worse -- a lousy picking technique.

You`re about 50% right,the other 50% is the left hand :D
You see,right picking technique won`t do you any good if the fingers on the fretboard doesnt do the job...you know what i mean...ehhh you should know what i mean !:smokin:
Anyway,it`s a very good point you`re making....lucky me who discovered this years ago :D
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

I've read the first page and I say why don't we just not say tone? We all know tone means the sound quality....not how he "feels". Sound good?
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

A players tone is dependent on many factors, one of which is 'the fingers'.

I always sound like me, but my tone is optimized by gear, depending on my needs for a particular song, gig, etc.
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

I didn't even get to finish reading this because it was too boring and it was time I was wasting that could have gone into me playing my guitar, so here's my two cents.

Vai + EVO + Whatever pedals he uses + Legacy =
EVO + Whatever pedals he uses + Legacy.

Vai + EVO +Whatever pedals he uses + Legacy + A trademark Lydian lick of his= Instantly recognizable Mr. Steve Vai

same as

Mr. Cheeseburger + Strat + Marshall = Strat + Marshall

Mr. Cheeseburger + Strat + Marshall + 1-2-3-4 minor harmonic scale pattern played at the speed of sound = Instantly recognizable fat guy that can shred!!
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

You`re about 50% right,the other 50% is the left hand :D
You see,right picking technique won`t do you any good if the fingers on the fretboard doesnt do the job...you know what i mean...ehhh you should know what i mean !:smokin:
Anyway,it`s a very good point you`re making....lucky me who discovered this years ago :D

This is where I begin to disagree with the “fingers” crowd. How does the fret hand actually contribute to the creation of the signal that leaves your guitar? Fret hand is where you really begin to get a feel for a player’s style, his groove, and his technique, which in my mind are all separate from tone.

When people say “I always sound like me” or “so-and-so always sounds like himself” they are hearing a string of notes that are dependent on a number of things, and the player and his fingers play a HUGE role in that. But in regards to tone, which I see as the singular sound that is an audio representation of an electrical current, I can’t see where the fret hand plays a big role in that.

Here’s how I see it… how easy would it be for you to tell the difference between two guitar players playing a single chord and letting it ring out? That’s tone. Now let them play the same riff, and you begin to hear their different styles and techniques shine through. The differences are not in what they played, but how they played it.
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

I can see hands affect tone only when you change the picking position or when hitting an open chord with the right movement you can achieve beter crunch...and crunch is a part of the tone.

These are the most acceptable "hand parameters" for me.

Picks and picking angles play their part too.

Although the device that affect my tone way more than anything is the POD XT Live.lol
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

It's probably already been said in this thread. Perhaps the terms need to be better defined. I think of tone as what is heard when playing a single chord or note. Tone is what's heard when playing an A chord A-E-A and letting it sustain or an open G chord. Obviously the tone when playing an open chord on a strat with a Fender twin with the volume 5 will be different that playing the same chord on a Les Paul through a JTM 45 with the volume on 11.

Style and timbre prevent one guys total sound from sounding like the next guy. Give a EVH, Slash, and Angus a Les Paul and plug them into the same Marshall amp...they will have the same tone, but their styles will obviously sound different.

It shouldn't be this way. I'm a slave to my gear. The gear influences the style that I want to play. Give me a Les Paul and a Marshall and I'm set to play power chords all day long. Give me a strat and I want to be Mark Knopfler or Eric Clapton.

Thus far my gear has been ruling me. One of these days I hope to learn to rule over my gear and then it will do what I want.

Here’s how I see it… how easy would it be for you to tell the difference between two guitar players playing a single chord and letting it ring out? That’s tone. Now let them play the same riff, and you begin to hear their different styles and techniques shine through. The differences are not in what they played, but how they played it.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say...
 
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Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

This is where I begin to disagree with the “fingers” crowd. How does the fret hand actually contribute to the creation of the signal that leaves your guitar? Fret hand is where you really begin to get a feel for a player’s style, his groove, and his technique, which in my mind are all separate from tone.

Where the finger is placed on the fretboard definitely affects the overtones produced, and hence, frequency response, or "tone."

Be that as it may, I tend to agree with Clapton: "Tone is in the trousers."
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

Where the finger is placed on the fretboard definitely affects the overtones produced, and hence, frequency response, or "tone."

Be that as it may, I tend to agree with Clapton: "Tone is in the trousers."

I've found that to be true and I was surprised (I mean the freting fingers, not the trousers thing:laugh2: ). You realise it when you hamer on and pull off with high speed without picking, the tone really changes....
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

+1
Truth be told, you can buy yourself half the way there with pedals, amps, pickups and guitars. The rest is in the hands.

Damn! I was hoping I could buy myself all the way to the top! :smack:

I guess I'll have to drop some of the overtime hours and practice a little :fing25:
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

You`re about 50% right,the other 50% is the left hand :D
You see,right picking technique won`t do you any good if the fingers on the fretboard doesnt do the job...you know what i mean...ehhh you should know what i mean !:smokin:
Anyway,it`s a very good point you`re making....lucky me who discovered this years ago :D

The left hand doesn't affect tone pretty much at all, except maybe on hammer-ons/pull-offs. Otherwise, it's all about phrasing, note choice, etc.
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

OK
SD doesn't sell fingers!! (I hope).

That's funny, I'm sorry that is funny! It kind of makes you wonder what kind of fingers would SD sell, small ones, long ones, fat/skinny ones would he "semourize" them. I think you may have something here; Seymour what do you think? :fingersx:
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

...I seem to remember a track on a Guitar for the Practicing Musician compilation cd around '90 that featured Zakk blazing on a tele. However, he basically sounded like a hotrodded Albert Lee, so that essentially reinforces your point.

anyways...

The problem every one seems to have is that there is this weird expectation that all this is somehow a totally cut and dried, one-or-the-other deal.

It's not.

Yes, tone is in the fingers. Anyone who has sat down with a friend and played the same lines through the same gear knows this. And I've heard certain players retain their essential character through all kind of different gear. Personally, I've played through several different amps this touring season: Mesa, fender, Vox, Victoria. And for better or worse, I've pretty much sounded like me.

...and yes, players sound different through different gear. Compare 60s Clapton to 90s Clapton. Or anyone who has switched gear. Can be subtle, can be huge.

...and what's more, tweaking and changing gear can improve your ability to express yourself, whether it's an action job or upgrading from a practice amp to a Bogner Shiva.

All these things happen. It's not like one disproves another. Life is complex.

So what are you afraid of:

-being called a soulless gearhead simply for having the experience of new gear improving how you personally percieve your playing?

-or being called a cop-out artist and a snob for simply stating the obvious: that to some degree or other, every player is blessed with a sonic signature that is unique to them?

It's better to accept both as realities and leave the fight for the moral high ground to folks who don't need to practice guitar more.

That sums it up well. Excellent...knowledgeable and experiential post HG.
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

The left hand doesn't affect tone pretty much at all, except maybe on hammer-ons/pull-offs. Otherwise, it's all about phrasing, note choice, etc.

It does affect the tone :) beleve me,Eric clapton does some foxy bends !
But first we have to agree on what tone really is,in my world tone is your
personall touch to the "music" and "sound". Since music is in your head and sound is in the gear tone has to be in the touch/aproache (fysically) a player adds to the two mentioned things.
A player who play sloppy bends,bad picking,bad timeing etc.blahblahblah does have a bad tone !
A player who play great sharp bends, acurate dynamic picking etc will most likely have a great tone
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

This is where I begin to disagree with the “fingers” crowd. How does the fret hand actually contribute to the creation of the signal that leaves your guitar? Fret hand is where you really begin to get a feel for a player’s style, his groove, and his technique, which in my mind are all separate from tone.

When people say “I always sound like me” or “so-and-so always sounds like himself” they are hearing a string of notes that are dependent on a number of things, and the player and his fingers play a HUGE role in that. But in regards to tone, which I see as the singular sound that is an audio representation of an electrical current, I can’t see where the fret hand plays a big role in that.

Here’s how I see it… how easy would it be for you to tell the difference between two guitar players playing a single chord and letting it ring out? That’s tone. Now let them play the same riff, and you begin to hear their different styles and techniques shine through. The differences are not in what they played, but how they played it.

I can explain this :)
If Your left hand doesn`t hit the tone in the same moment as you hit with the
pick it`ll sound "weird"
 
Re: "Tone is in your fingers" cliche'

Hmm, my pro drummer friend (real pro, not bar band pro like myself) was trying to explain how to "pull" the tone out of a drum when hitting it. Being a guitarist, I understand, but don't "get it". Anyone who thinks that tone only comes from the guitar and amp is sadly mistaken. Even one note played through the same guitar and rig by 2 different players will have some different qualities. Depending on the 2 players, the differences may be extremely subtle and hard to notice, or they may be very blatant and noticeable.

I also agree that all tone doesn't from the fingers, that is equally ridiculous. Tone encompasses it all, Brad Paisley doesn't play through a Dual Recto and Slayer isn't going to record their next disc with Fender Twins, both for good reasons. Every piece in the chain has an affect on tone, from the pick (yes, the pick) and fingers to the cables, to the amps, and ending at the speakers, or if you are recording, the mics, pres, etc... in the recording chain.

I don't think you can mutually exclude anything here, which is why I find an arguement on either side of the fence to be equally asinine.

FWIW, I didn't read all the posts, it started getting long winded.
 
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