Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

[murat]

Hi there, I pulled the trigger for a new boutique-handmade electric guitar. Discussed with my fellow local luthier and choose a good old piece of mahogany for body, highly figured canadian sweet chestnut top, we found amazing one piece quartersawn roasted walnut for the neck, ebony fretboard.

Here's the video shows how the body looks: https://www.instagram.com/p/BtYsdA6HMeH/

I wanna make this guitar as versatile as possible. I'm planning to put some duncans in it, haven't choose the configuration but probably will be HH or HS. I generally play tight drop tuned metal (Ola Englund stuff, Architects) but sometimes blues (bonamassa, srv) too. Not planning to nail a perfect blues sound but need something works. My main goal is tight (not rounded or boomy) and clear drop tuned sound. I love single coil tones and use coil split a lot so it should be good too. Here's the pickups I'm considering:

Black Winter Set (seems insanely good for metal but not sure about low gain tones/versatiliy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vc0CGTpAnI loved them after watching this demo, it's the brutal tone I'm dreaming about

Parallel Axis Original and neck (seems perfect for everything but not much review around)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5F6jCP-j7c In this review both bw and patb sounds really really good bw seems more grainy and bitey while patb is more grindy and big to my ears

TB-5 Custom/Alnico II Pro (maybe duckbucker or cool rails for the neck)
Pegasus/Sentient (heard many good/bad things about pegasus so I'm not sure if it fits me)
Alpha/Omega Set (many people found them way too trebly/thin)
59-Custom Hybrid/Jazz (not sure about high gain tones)
I'm even considering stacked p90 set (because of john browne) but I haven't ever tried p90's.

For other brands I looked DiMarzio Illuminators (or Satchur8 maybe) but I can't trust DiMarzio, most of them sounds muffled, too compressed and bassy to me.
Also might use Bare Knuckle Black Hawk set, but I couldn'T find much info about them, and as they're very expensive I leaned more towards Duncan.

I'm looking for all suggestions, as we haven't drilled any pickup cavities, every possible suggestion is significant for me.

 

[Gransen]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Not planning to nail a perfect blues sound but need something works. My main goal is bitey and clear drop tuned sound. I love single coil tones and use coil split a lot so it should be good too.

First thought: Invaders (bridge, not neck). I haven't split them yet, but humbuckin' they are bitey, full, and crystal clear. Lower tuning = "more bitey without much loss of clarity." I've had them in two mahogany body guitars, and they sing.

Second thought: Don't listen to me because I'm hooked on those stupid things!!! Too full, too clear, if there is such a thing...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

My first thought is 59-Custom Hybrid/Jazz or Sentient. All of these sound great with high gain, and not boomy at all. Tight, but not strictly metal pickups, so you can use them for many other things. Great across all gain ranges, too. I love the cool guitar body, btw.

 

[murat]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Thanks! I heard that 59/Custom Hybrid has an amazing harmonic content and a really good all-around tone. But I'm curious if it hums at high levels of gain because of the mismatched coils? Also will it drive my amp enough (like sh5 custom)? (I've used paf pros before and they're way too weak for me for example)

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

First thought: Invaders (bridge, not neck). I haven't split them yet, but humbuckin' they are bitey, full, and crystal clear. Lower tuning = "more bitey without much loss of clarity." I've had them in two mahogany body guitars, and they sing.

Second thought: Don't listen to me because I'm hooked on those stupid things!!! Too full, too clear, if there is such a thing...

Invaders? Seriously?

 

[Gransen]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Invaders? Seriously?

Do you have treb/mid/low control over your output at the amp...??? You cannot add what's not there, but you can remove what is. And now I have less limitations.

The only question at that point is if I like the overall sound as the result of shaping it at the amp. And that's why I've got a JB in the bridge of a different guitar. Sometimes it just doesn't feel right trying to replicate what I get from a different pickup. (Oh, and I'm not stuck in one specific rock/metal genre, so versatility is key for me.)

 

[murat]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

I never considered the invaders tbh. In the sound demos, they always sounded too muddy, compressed and dark compared to other Seymour Duncan models. Even their visual design is repulsive imo

 

[Mincer]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Thanks! I heard that 59/Custom Hybrid has an amazing harmonic content and a really good all-around tone. But I'm curious if it hums at high levels of gain because of the mismatched coils? Also will it drive my amp enough (like sh5 custom)? (I've used paf pros before and they're way too weak for me for example)

There is actually a little hum (maybe like 10% of a single coil) due to the mismatched coils. It isn't as hot as a regular Custom, but a lot more dynamic (less compressed feeling).

 

[Gransen]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

I never considered the invaders tbh. In the sound demos, they always sounded too muddy, compressed and dark compared to other Seymour Duncan models. Even their visual design is repulsive imo

I like a good fat bottom end. My hearing is pretty sensitive up top. My dad is over half deaf, just like his dad. My mom can hear a pin drop, and it drives her nuts when pins drop. Misophonia: "Hyper-sensitivity to sound." I never would have guessed that this is a medical condition if I didn't know my mom.

I'm now starting to learn something after a month or so of posting here: my own sensitive hearing has me going down a road that others don't appreciate like I do. That's really super good to know!

Oh well, I guess I'll have to figure out how to drill out some JB's or Pearly Gates so I can install some extremely attractive and really cool looking pickup poles...maybe go with chrome plated torx head machine screws instead of black hex head...!!!

 

[murat]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

I like a good fat bottom end. My hearing is pretty sensitive up top. My dad is over half deaf, just like his dad. My mom can hear a pin drop, and it drives her nuts when pins drop. Misophonia: "Hyper-sensitivity to sound." I never would have guessed that this is a medical condition if I didn't know my mom.

I'm now starting to learn something after a month or so of posting here: my own sensitive hearing has me going down a road that others don't appreciate like I do. That's really super good to know!

Oh well, I guess I'll have to figure out how to drill out some JB's or Pearly Gates so I can install some extremely attractive and really cool looking pickup poles...maybe go with chrome plated torx head machine screws instead of black hex head...!!!

Ok, good luck with your hyper-sensitive ear, that's good for you. Also thanks for the suggestions.


Does anybody have any experience with parallel axis original? I'm very curious about it as it has an interesting different structure from others.

 

[Despair]

Re: Black Winter vs Parallel Axis vs 59/Custom Hybrid

Re: Black Winter vs Parallel Axis vs 59/Custom Hybrid

Hi there, I pulled the trigger for a new boutique-handmade electric guitar. Discussed with my fellow local luthier and choose a good old piece of mahogany for body, highly figured canadian sweet chestnut top, we found amazing one piece quartersawn roasted walnut for the neck, ebony fretboard.

Mahogany guitars are often pretty warm, but I've got no idea what impact a sweet chestnut top, especially figured, might have. Walnut is usually considered similar to maple, often with an interesting growl. Ebony fretboards are balanced with strong high end. Electronics can utterly change all that anyways. I'm guessing guitar will probably be reasonably balanced. Not that averages are anything but a first guess, only really know once you try the finished instrument and see how the pickups interact with everything.

I wanna make this guitar as versatile as possible. I'm planning to put some duncans in it, haven't choose the configuration but probably will be HH or HS. I generally play tight drop tuned metal (Ola Englund stuff, Architects) but sometimes blues (bonamassa, srv) too. Not planning to nail a perfect blues sound but need something works. My main goal is tight (not rounded or boomy) and clear drop tuned sound. I love single coil tones and use coil split a lot so it should be good too. Here's the pickups I'm considering:

Black Winter Set (seems insanely good for metal but not sure about low gain tones/versatiliy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vc0CGTpAnI loved them after watching this demo, it's the brutal tone I'm dreaming about

I've heard good things about their flexibility... For a ceramic, metal-oriented pickup. Whether that's enough flexibility to do what you want in clean to low gain is another question. Maybe Black Winter bridge, Sentient neck? If you can do what you want for clean to low gain with the neck position...

Parallel Axis Original and neck (seems perfect for everything but not much review around)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5F6jCP-j7c In this review both bw and patb sounds really really good bw seems more grainy and bitey while patb is more grindy and big to my ears

I like it, would probably work, particularly if you are going for a floating vibrato. If versatility matters more, I'd look at the PATB-3 Blues Saraceno, it's like an overwound '59, only without losing the high end. If you want gonzo metal, you might look at the PATB-2, certainly would be my choice instead of the Invader someone else recommended. But... Might have too much low end, where you want something a bit more controlled down there.

Parallel Axis pickups seem pretty sensitive to height adjustment, I could drop my PATB-1b low and the middle dropped out, sounded like a cross between a telecaster and a giant piano, or bring it too close and it got fizzy. At the right distance, things balance out, and it's pretty flexible. It's a bit like a Custom 5, only sweeter for leads, and the high end feels different, smoother. Ridiculously responsive to pick attack. Sort of hyper-tubey feel. Can get squishy if you lay back, but tighten up as you dig in.

It pretty much saved a problem Ibanez RG570 I had, which wasn't getting along with the stock pickups or JB I'd tried before it. Needed more low end, but not more mids. But I liked the aggressive upper mids of the JB, but not the dull high end when clean. PATB-1b's extended harmonics do what I liked there, a different way, without being uncomfortably bright in my guitar. Very dynamic and fun to play, and I've found that translates well with modellers as well as tube amps.

TB-5 Custom/Alnico II Pro (maybe duckbucker or cool rails for the neck)

Custom with the ceramic magnet is a popular for rock and metal, particularly for rhythm. No slouch for leads, and surprisingly good at low gain and cleans for a pickup with a ceramic magnet. Might still be a touch stiff for clean to low gain. Some volume disparity there, but not unworkable.

Pegasus/Sentient (heard many good/bad things about pegasus so I'm not sure if it fits me)

If you want something that's precise but still screams for leads, Pegasus and Perpetual Burn seem like good choices. And the Sentient is probably worth considering with many of your bridge pickups, if you want a bit more fatness and output while still staying defined.

Alpha/Omega Set (many people found them way too trebly/thin)
59-Custom Hybrid/Jazz (not sure about high gain tones)
I'm even considering stacked p90 set (because of john browne) but I haven't ever tried p90's.

The sounds I've heard from Alpha/Omega users didn't seem to require particular pickups so much as particular EQ, so I can't comment on their flexibility.
'59/Custom can be pretty bright, but is flexible. Unless you need the pickup to punish the amp input (a rarity in modern amps, especially if you aren't afraid to use a boost, compressor, EQ or whatnot), and even then, there are other pickups you are considering that it is hotter than...
Stack P-90s don't tend to be liked by serious P-90 users, as they tend to be darker and trade off some of the sound due to issues with height of the stack if they keep normal coil dimensions. I'd make sure you get them with 1 RWRP so that when using both at once, they noise cancel. Or look at a P-Rails set in Triple Shot pickup rings, if you want something crazy flexible that includes P-90 sounds. But I think the series humbucker pickup mode isn't what you are looking for, you want something punchier. Though P-90s can be crazy for metal, as a couple SDUGF forumites demonstrated a while back. With a good noise gate, even noisy pickups can be managed with high gain.

For other brands I looked DiMarzio Illuminators (or Satchur8 maybe) but I can't trust DiMarzio, most of them sounds muffled, too compressed and bassy to me.
Also might use Bare Knuckle Black Hawk set, but I couldn'T find much info about them, and as they're very expensive I leaned more towards Duncan.

Not a fan of DiMarzio for ethical reasons (double creme pickup trademark, history of that does not reflect well on them), so don't follow their recent stuff.

Bare Knuckle make great pickups, but are expensive here, and most of the ones I was interested in were their twist on classic pickups, but I haven't followed due to price/availability (and being happy with my Seymour Duncans).

Hope all that rambling helps, I don't like to prescribe choices as people's tastes differ.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Thanks! I heard that 59/Custom Hybrid has an amazing harmonic content and a really good all-around tone. But I'm curious if it hums at high levels of gain because of the mismatched coils? Also will it drive my amp enough (like sh5 custom)? (I've used paf pros before and they're way too weak for me for example)

Running a couple of Hybrids and they are not any worse than other humbuckers to buzz even at very high gains. The Hybrid also feels much hotter than the charts show it is. I also highly recommend the Sentient as a neck match. The Sentient really stays articulate and clear at high gain but is very nice clean and splits very well. It's much more suited to the Hybrid IMO than a Jazz.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

I never considered the invaders tbh. In the sound demos, they always sounded too muddy, compressed and dark compared to other Seymour Duncan models. Even their visual design is repulsive imo

Yes. That's exactly how they sound.

 

[Artie]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

It's hard to select pups for someone else, but here's another vote for PATB-1b's. And, they have the "exotic" pole pieces.

 

[murat]

Re: Black Winter vs Parallel Axis vs 59/Custom Hybrid

Re: Black Winter vs Parallel Axis vs 59/Custom Hybrid

Mahogany guitars are often pretty warm, but I've got no idea what impact a sweet chestnut top, especially figured, might have. Walnut is usually considered similar to maple, often with an interesting growl. Ebony fretboards are balanced with strong high end. Electronics can utterly change all that anyways. I'm guessing guitar will probably be reasonably balanced. Not that averages are anything but a first guess, only really know once you try the finished instrument and see how the pickups interact with everything.


I've heard good things about their flexibility... For a ceramic, metal-oriented pickup. Whether that's enough flexibility to do what you want in clean to low gain is another question. Maybe Black Winter bridge, Sentient neck? If you can do what you want for clean to low gain with the neck position...


I like it, would probably work, particularly if you are going for a floating vibrato. If versatility matters more, I'd look at the PATB-3 Blues Saraceno, it's like an overwound '59, only without losing the high end. If you want gonzo metal, you might look at the PATB-2, certainly would be my choice instead of the Invader someone else recommended. But... Might have too much low end, where you want something a bit more controlled down there.

Parallel Axis pickups seem pretty sensitive to height adjustment, I could drop my PATB-1b low and the middle dropped out, sounded like a cross between a telecaster and a giant piano, or bring it too close and it got fizzy. At the right distance, things balance out, and it's pretty flexible. It's a bit like a Custom 5, only sweeter for leads, and the high end feels different, smoother. Ridiculously responsive to pick attack. Sort of hyper-tubey feel. Can get squishy if you lay back, but tighten up as you dig in.

It pretty much saved a problem Ibanez RG570 I had, which wasn't getting along with the stock pickups or JB I'd tried before it. Needed more low end, but not more mids. But I liked the aggressive upper mids of the JB, but not the dull high end when clean. PATB-1b's extended harmonics do what I liked there, a different way, without being uncomfortably bright in my guitar. Very dynamic and fun to play, and I've found that translates well with modellers as well as tube amps.


Custom with the ceramic magnet is a popular for rock and metal, particularly for rhythm. No slouch for leads, and surprisingly good at low gain and cleans for a pickup with a ceramic magnet. Might still be a touch stiff for clean to low gain. Some volume disparity there, but not unworkable.


If you want something that's precise but still screams for leads, Pegasus and Perpetual Burn seem like good choices. And the Sentient is probably worth considering with many of your bridge pickups, if you want a bit more fatness and output while still staying defined.


The sounds I've heard from Alpha/Omega users didn't seem to require particular pickups so much as particular EQ, so I can't comment on their flexibility.
'59/Custom can be pretty bright, but is flexible. Unless you need the pickup to punish the amp input (a rarity in modern amps, especially if you aren't afraid to use a boost, compressor, EQ or whatnot), and even then, there are other pickups you are considering that it is hotter than...
Stack P-90s don't tend to be liked by serious P-90 users, as they tend to be darker and trade off some of the sound due to issues with height of the stack if they keep normal coil dimensions. I'd make sure you get them with 1 RWRP so that when using both at once, they noise cancel. Or look at a P-Rails set in Triple Shot pickup rings, if you want something crazy flexible that includes P-90 sounds. But I think the series humbucker pickup mode isn't what you are looking for, you want something punchier. Though P-90s can be crazy for metal, as a couple SDUGF forumites demonstrated a while back. With a good noise gate, even noisy pickups can be managed with high gain.


Not a fan of DiMarzio for ethical reasons (double creme pickup trademark, history of that does not reflect well on them), so don't follow their recent stuff.

Bare Knuckle make great pickups, but are expensive here, and most of the ones I was interested in were their twist on classic pickups, but I haven't followed due to price/availability (and being happy with my Seymour Duncans).

Hope all that rambling helps, I don't like to prescribe choices as people's tastes differ.

Really appreciated for your spectacular response that's what I needed. Thank you so much!

The guitar is going to be bolt-on construction with hipshot fixed bridge. 1 volume and 1 tone with 500k. I'll probably get a thick neck profile with 24 frets.

I've used tb5 custom before. I think it does everything well, but nothing great. It's a safe bet for me but I'm curious about other models.

I narrowed my choices to Black Winter Set, PATB1 Set and 59/Custom Hybrid with jazz/59/PG/WLH/SNS neck or maybe even STK4 neck single coil as I'm a big fan of single coils. Sentient seems very good but my luthier is very obsessive with looks, so I may not be able to use sentient with 59/C hybrid. Probably pearly gates neck would be my choice with 59/C as it has mismatched coils too.

I'm not looking for crazy high output amp punishing pickup I just don't want it to be like paf pro in the bridge (I really hated it).

I like grainy or maybe even a little twangy sound at high gain (at some point I even considered using telecaster for metal). Not too thick and bassy. In the descriptions Black Winters are built for it. PATB seems to be big and clear with good harmonics, if they won't be too thick in this guitar they may work for me too. 59/C is the most interesting one (as it has so open, bright and rich tone) and the most versatile, if it's not too weak like paf pro it'll do the job. But anyways I wanna get a fast, tight attack for palm mutes, drop tunings etc. Enough lows with good tightness, attack and clarity is a must for me. I hate smooth or boomy lows in the bridge position. As all three sets have good coil split so I'm not doubting about it. But I have to choose the best of this three set, I'm not living in USA, so don't have the exchange policy, I'll buy it and use it.

 

[Despair]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

I'm puzzled what would trigger your luthier about the Sentient, the black stud polepieces? That's unfortunate, because it's a great match for a lot of pickups. Bit of the strengths of both a jazz and '59, in one pickup, only without or at least less of the sometimes coldness or sometimes boominess of the others.

Any of the pickups should be fine for being hot enough, all of them are at least hotter than a classic PAF. And none have the light on low end, heavy on honk and bite of the PAF Pro, either.

PATB-1b might be OK, but it'd take some getting used to. It's low end can be fat or tight depending on how you hit it, and whether you manage to get the height dialed in for your playing style. PATB-3 is likely to be a bit more forgiving on height adjust/pick attack quirks, but still very responsive. I don't think PATB-2 is what you want at all, too much low end growl.

PATB-series I highly recommend guitarists try, they are amazing pickups, they make you really want to work on your articulation because they respond so interestingly to it. But... Palm mutes can bloat a bit if your control isn't good. I can more than make it work, I'm happier with it than a JB (and there's a lot of thrash metal recorded with JBs). But given lack of exchange policy, and poor secondary market for them overseas, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Parallel Axis pickup, as much as I love mine [To point where I want a guitar for each of the bridge models, and another for a PATB-1b/PATB-3 hybrid, a Parallel Axis take on the '59/Custom hybrid].

If it was just for metal, I'd suggest the Black Winters. But they are ceramic, and while they are flexible for a ceramic, I don't think I'd pick them over a Custom for clean to low gain, from what I've been hearing of them. Not because they can't sound good, but because they emphasize different frequencies than I'm used to for those sounds.

Given flexiblity matters, '59/Custom seems like a pretty good bet. No need to worry about having to adjust your picking style. Still enough and tight enough low end, even though the differing coils emphasize the upper harmonics. Great for any level of gain, though not instant black metal tones at gain without some EQ.

 

[murat]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Despair, you helped me a lot. I'm really appreciated. I decided to give up on the PATB1. It's great on the demos and descriptions, probably will fit me but I'm not very confident about it. So I might give it a try in the future.
Now, I have to decide between Black Winters and '59/Custom Hybrid with Pearly Gates Neck. It's still hard to choose, Black Winters are great for metal, it'll drive my amp really well and have the great qualities that I want from a metal pickup. But 59/C and PG have the sweetest tone I've ever heard. And very versatile too. I'll think about it, and decide. More metal or sweet/versatile, it's a tough decision. Thanks for all the help!

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

You just need to buy another guitar...or two, or three, or more.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

Well, the Black Winters do more than metal, but are in a different EQ area than the Hybrid/PG combo. The Winters certainly have more mids (in a musical sense) than the scooped Hybrid and the mostly scooped PG. Do you like or need mids? Then the BW. If not, the other set is the way to go.

 

[Despair]

Re: Torn Between Pickups For My New Handmade Guitar

The '59/Custom hasn't struck me as more scooped than a '59 or a Custom 5, but that may have been the guitars I've heard it in. In your guitar, assuming no surprises from quirks of individual pieces of wood, I don't think it'd lack for anything for your tastes. Except maybe for the attack you get from a hot ceramic pickup. But the harmonics/presence of the '59/C may suit even there. Some people get addicted to particular configurations. Others can adapt to or enjoy a variety.

The more guitars argument GuitarDoc presents is of course always compelling. And yet the wallet flees, shrieking in terror...

Speaking of versatility AND pickup variety in one instrument, I wish Roland VG-88 had done better, or that Line 6 would do a Variax add-on. Not having to buy a guitar for every sound would let you at least not have to carry everything to gigs, and let you focus only on perfecting the particular sounds you most care about, rather than collecting everything you might need if you have varied tastes. Or trying to compromise with versatile configurations. Especially for oddballs like unobtanium pickups or odd body types and tunings. Double parts with a different model (including acoustics, banjo, sitar, mandolin, not just electrics)...

Oh well, at least new amp & effects modellers are changing cost of entry. And making people more aware of oddballs like Supros, which showed up on a lot of classic tracks that people thought were done with Marshalls because that's what the artists all toured with for reliability/availability reasons.