Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

BadAspen

Member
I have a bridge on my guitar that looks like a synchronized tremolo but actually operates closer to a Floyd Rose. When I got my guitar back from the shop they cranked it all the way down so that you couldn't pull up and the bar was pointed way up at a weird angle.

I figured I'd just back the trem claw up until I got it set to what I had before, but now when I pull up the claw falls loose from the screws and I can feel it through the bar and hear it rattle. How do I fix this?
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

You have to do it gradually. For a floating system, you have to tune, adjust, tune, adjust, and so on until you hit the correct balance point. It's a pain to be sure, but patience is the key.

Also, NEVER go back to that shop for service. They are obviously clueless.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

how many springs are in there now? you can put rubber tubing over the trem claw screws to kinda hold it in place if need be
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Also, NEVER go back to that shop for service. They are obviously clueless.

In their defense, they did a pretty good job at fixing my headstock that broke off.

how many springs are in there now? you can put rubber tubing over the trem claw screws to kinda hold it in place if need be

2 springs parallel at the outside, but with 3 I can't loosen it enough to float properly.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

You might experiment with different springs, as they aren't all the same. Many companies make springs at different tensions.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

You have to do it gradually. For a floating system, you have to tune, adjust, tune, adjust, and so on until you hit the correct balance point. It's a pain to be sure, but patience is the key.

Also, NEVER go back to that shop for service. They are obviously clueless.

Oh, and to clarify. I can get the bridge balanced and in tune properly, I just can't get the claw to stay pushed against the head of the screw whenever I pull up on the bar.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

You might experiment with different springs, as they aren't all the same. Many companies make springs at different tensions.

The issue isn't the tension, the issue is that when I release the tension the claw falls off. This same set of springs was working just fine earlier.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Set it up so the claw is slightly diagonal. That way when you pull up one spring still has tension on the claw.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Unless you're talking about a design I haven't seen, the claw can't fall off. The screws go through it. The springs can fall off the claw. Is this what is happening?

Also, why so mysterious about what vibrato it is? "Looks like a synchronized tremolo but actually operates closer to a Floyd Rose" seems like a vague way to put it.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Unless you're talking about a design I haven't seen, the claw can't fall off. The screws go through it. The springs can fall off the claw. Is this what is happening?

Also, why so mysterious about what vibrato it is? "Looks like a synchronized tremolo but actually operates closer to a Floyd Rose" seems like a vague way to put it.

The claw isn't "falling off", when I pull up on the bar the springs slack so that the claw is no longer pulled against the spring, if I dive further they actually push the claw towards the back of the route. This ruins the smoothness of the tremolo and makes a considerable amount of noise. So far I've tried putting springs on the screws that mount the claw to the body as a sort of counterbalance, but that doesn't work.

The bridge is actually a Vegatrem, the reason I didn't go into detail was because the specifics of the trem don't make a difference to the problem and as it is a less then common design it would confuse people. As you can tell from most of the previous posts, people aren't quite clear on the problem as-is.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Start from scratch. Block the trem level, crank the claw down enough to hold it firmly. Might want to add a couple toothpick slivers to the claw screw holes just in case. Tune as normal, then unblock the trem. Slowly let the claw out until you come back into tune. If this doesn't work, give us some pictures of what's happening. Only other thing I can think of is maybe the Vega Trem springs might be shorter than standard, and your repair tech substituted a set of standard Strat springs.
 
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Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Here's a video of what I'm on about:
Those springs were an attempt to fix the problem, but they didn't make a difference. I've tried angled the claw, short high tension springs, normal springs, and long lower tension springs all to no avail. Like I said, the only thing that changed before this was the guy tightened to bridge all the way down so it was down-only.

The camera didn't pick it up that well, but that noise is really loud.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

The claw isn't "falling off", when I pull up on the bar the springs slack so that the claw is no longer pulled against the spring, if I dive further they actually push the claw towards the back of the route. This ruins the smoothness of the tremolo and makes a considerable amount of noise. So far I've tried putting springs on the screws that mount the claw to the body as a sort of counterbalance, but that doesn't work.

The bridge is actually a Vegatrem, the reason I didn't go into detail was because the specifics of the trem don't make a difference to the problem and as it is a less then common design it would confuse people. As you can tell from most of the previous posts, people aren't quite clear on the problem as-is.

They aren't clear because you aren't describing it very well.

You said:

[T]he issue is that when I release the tension the claw falls off.

Now you say, "The claw isn't falling off."

It will not "confuse" people to tell them what you are talking about. It confuses them not to, and to use long winded descriptions instead, e.g. "looks like a synchronized tremolo, but actually operates closer to a Floyd Rose". And this wordy description is highly flawed anyhow. This vibrato has almost nothing in common with a Floyd Rose...nor does it look like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo. It's basically a Super Vee Blade Runner (which is an utter piece of garbage IME) with Wilkinson/Gotoh-type saddles.

Your description is unclear and all over the place here, and it needs to be nailed down before anyone can give you a useful answer.

To me, it sounds as simple as: Your claw is sliding off of the screw heads during extreme pull ups. This is common. It was probably doing it before too, to some degree, but you didn't notice it.

This is a classic issue for those who do extreme pull ups on a Strat. The best solution is to ignore it, because it doesn't matter. A ghetto fix is to stuff something behind the back of the claw and the front edge of the vibrato cavity. A bundle of cloth. a piece of wood. Whatever.

If you want to keep messing with setup, then I you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs. It sounds to me like they might have used a lower tension set of strings than what was on there previously.

With the back cavity open, push the vibrato down (i.e. pull the arm up) as far as you ever will. This should loosen to claw from its screws (according to you). While holding it there, tighten the claw screws until the claw is just barely held tightly. Release the vibrato arm. If your bridge is no longer level, you need higher tension strings.
 
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Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

They aren't clear because you aren't describing it very well.

You said:



Now you say, "The claw isn't falling off."

It will not "confuse" people to tell them what you are talking about. It confuses them not to, and to use long winded descriptions instead, e.g. "looks like a synchronized tremolo, but actually operates closer to a Floyd Rose". And this wordy description is highly flawed anyhow. This vibrato has almost nothing in common with a Floyd Rose...nor does it look like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo. It's basically a Super Vee Blade Runner (which is an utter piece of garbage IME) with Wilkinson/Gotoh-type saddles.

Your description is unclear and all over the place here, and it needs to be nailed down before anyone can give you a useful answer.

To me, it sounds as simple as: Your claw is sliding off of the screw heads during extreme pull ups. This is common. It was probably doing it before too, to some degree, but you didn't notice it.

This is a classic issue for those who do extreme pull ups on a Strat. The best solution is to ignore it, because it doesn't matter. A ghetto fix is to stuff something behind the back of the claw and the front edge of the vibrato cavity. A bundle of cloth. a piece of wood. Whatever.

If you want to keep messing with setup, then I you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs. It sounds to me like they might have used a lower tension set of strings than what was on there previously.

With the back cavity open, push the vibrato down (i.e. pull the arm up) as far as you ever will. This should loosen to claw from its screws (according to you). While holding it there, tighten the claw screws until the claw is just barely held tightly. Release the vibrato arm. If your bridge is no longer level, you need lower tension strings.

If I didn't describe it well, watch the video.

I never said it was "falling off", the closest I said was "falling loose", ie coming slack. I wasn't aware falling loose was an uncommon phrase.

The Vegatrem is closer in range and feel to a Floyd Rose than any other bridge I could think of. The tech that did the work on it mistook it for a Synchronized. End of story, no aggression necessary.

It was most certainly not doing this before hand. All my other strats, this one before now included squeaked. This one makes a loud "clunk".

I don’t think I need lower tension springs, as I'm sure you meant, because I've used now 4 different sets, including 2 high tension springs parallel to each other, 2 angled high tensions springs, 2 angled medium tension springs, and just to try it also a single low tension springs

Again, let me reiterate, there is no need to get aggressive, no need to tell me the problem I am having doesn't exist, no need to bash Super Vee as if it hurts me in any way.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Isn't there a drawing how much space the claw needs to move. It could be that tech missed to take out some more in body for this trem to work properly.

Maybe you need more room to tighten springs as well etc.

In your opening post you did not say this is as guitar came back from tech the installed a new trem. It sounded like you had this trem working before but had a neck repair done in another post later, nothing else.

Nobody is aggressive just because they don't get the information you have in your head, but don't write.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Looking at video - it seems that this trem does not fit you guitar well or not adjusted right.
a) it seems that bridge saddles are not right height to get the right action on strings over neck and claw goes way too much forward when in balance.
b) this also make claw too much to the side to allow movement

So maybe adjust bridge saddles so claw goes back in cavity, not all in front as now.

To me it looks that way - balance saddle height so claw goes in middle when strung up at your favorite action.
At least on my syncronized trem on strat bridge saddles goes quite a bit up and down when moving trem, pivot thingy.
As I saw video on Vegatrem site - this seems to be the case for this trem also.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Could you clarify what you mean? The bridge is set the same as when I first installed it, so it's not that the bridge doesn't fit or I don't know how to install it.

And what do you mean in your point a)? Neither my strings or saddles are in the video. Also with point b) how would setting my action affect sideways motion of the tren claw? The screws prevent sideways motion.

In short, I do not believe that string height is the problem here. Actually looking at it, the action wasn't even adjusted, so that wouldn't be a variable.
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

If I didn't describe it well, watch the video.

I never said it was "falling off", the closest I said was "falling loose", ie coming slack. I wasn't aware falling loose was an uncommon phrase.

The Vegatrem is closer in range and feel to a Floyd Rose than any other bridge I could think of. The tech that did the work on it mistook it for a Synchronized. End of story, no aggression necessary.

It was most certainly not doing this before hand. All my other strats, this one before now included squeaked. This one makes a loud "clunk".

I don’t think I need lower tension springs, as I'm sure you meant, because I've used now 4 different sets, including 2 high tension springs parallel to each other, 2 angled high tensions springs, 2 angled medium tension springs, and just to try it also a single low tension springs

Again, let me reiterate, there is no need to get aggressive, no need to tell me the problem I am having doesn't exist, no need to bash Super Vee as if it hurts me in any way.

Holy smokes. There are so many problems here, I don't even know where to begin. Gotta just jump in, I guess.

Firstly, someone pointing out where you are confusing or incorrect, after you have expressed dismay that no one is understanding what you're saying, is not "aggression." It's exactly what it is: someone telling you where you are wrong or unclear.

Now, about you saying, "I never said it was 'falling off', the closest I said was 'falling loose'..."

In the post of mine that you quoted, I quoted you saying, "[T]he issue is that when I release the tension, the claw falls off." Your words, now you claim you never said them...in response to a post in which I quoted you saying them.

Again, the bridge "operates" (your words) with very little in common with a Floyd Rose (beyond both being FUNDAMENTALLY based on the Fender unit, of course). That is a basic design fact. The Floyd has a couple of major defining characteristics: Two post/knife edge mount, locking saddles, fine tuners. The range is not a feature that is unique to a Floyd (the large range largely comes from the bridge plate height), and the "feel" that you are talking about likely comes from using only two springs.

It looks about as much like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo as a Nova looks like an Impala. Sure, they're both Chevies, with four wheels. But you can't mistake one for the other, even from across the parking lot, just as you couldn't mistake the vibrato in question for a Fender Synchronized from across the room. If your tech though it was a Fender Synchronized Tremolo, then he or she is a very ignorant tech. But we had some idea of this already, as the guitar was returned to you with the bridge plate angled rearward.

The vibrato in question is its own thing, but it's using design elements that can be seen in Super Vee and Wilkinson vibratos, far more than it is using design elements seen in a Floyd. That's a fact...and that, among other confusing, contradictory, and oddly worded statements are why people weren't grasping exactly what you were talking about. Why the explanation of such is a personal affront or "aggression" to you is something I am not even going to bother to try to figure out...but it's weird. I explained why people weren't getting it (because your statements were weird), and I followed it up with the closest thing you've had to a solution in the thread.

I did NOT mean lower tension springs. I had just said a few sentences up that "you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs." I wrote strings, and that was what I meant. But I did write "lower" when I meant "higher" in my head. In other words, maybe your tech put lower tension strings on the guitar. I have gone back to the post and changed "lower" to "higher," to correct it.

I did not get what I would call aggressive. I told you what was wrong with your description, which I thought was why you weren't getting more useful answers. I did not tell you your problem doesn't exist. I tried to nail down exactly what it was. And I did not bash Super Vee to hurt you (how could it). I did it as an aside (I own one...unfortunately). Where you are coming up with this stuff is beyond me. But trust me; I wasn't attempting to be "aggressive" with you. I was attempting to straighten out your statements and provide a real solution. Criticism – often very detailed – is how you solve problems and make improvements. So instead of getting all hurt and upset, please go back and listen to what I was suggesting. It might work.

To get back to something in my second post, did your tech install the same strings, or at least the same string set, that you had on it when you dropped it off?
 
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Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Holy smokes. There are so many problems here, I don't even know where to begin. Gotta just jump in, I guess.

Firstly, someone pointing out where you are confusing or incorrect, after you have expressed dismay that no one is understanding what you're saying, is not "aggression." It's exactly what it is: someone telling you where you are wrong or unclear.

Now, about you saying, "I never said it was 'falling off', the closest I said was 'falling loose'..."

In the post of mine that you quoted, I quoted you saying, "[T]he issue is that when I release the tension, the claw falls off." Your words, now you claim you never said them...in response to a post in which I quoted you saying them.

Again, the bridge "operates" (your words) with very little in common with a Floyd Rose (beyond both being FUNDAMENTALLY based on the Fender unit, of course). That is a basic design fact. The Floyd has a couple of major defining characteristics: Two post/knife edge mount, locking saddles, fine tuners. The range is not a feature that is unique to a Floyd (the large range largely comes from the bridge plate height), and the "feel" that you are talking about likely comes from using only two springs.

It looks about as much like a Fender Synchronized Tremolo as a Nova looks like an Impala. Sure, they're both Chevies, with four wheels. But you can't mistake one for the other, even from across the parking lot, just as you couldn't mistake the vibrato in question for a Fender Synchronized from across the room. If your tech though it was a Fender Synchronized Tremolo, then he or she is a very ignorant tech. But we had some idea of this already, as the guitar was returned to you with the bridge plate angled rearward.

The vibrato in question is its own thing, but it's using design elements that can be seen in Super Vee and Wilkinson vibratos, far more than it is using design elements seen in a Floyd. That's a fact...and that, among other confusing, contradictory, and oddly worded statements are why people weren't grasping exactly what you were talking about. Why the explanation of such is a personal affront or "aggression" to you is something I am not even going to bother to try to figure out...but it's weird. I explained why people weren't getting it (because your statements were weird), and I followed it up with the closest thing you've had to a solution in the thread.

I did NOT mean lower tension springs. I had just said a few sentences up that "you don't need to change the number of springs or try different springs." I wrote strings, and that was what I meant. But I did write "lower" when I meant "higher" in my head. In other words, maybe your tech put lower tension strings on the guitar. I have gone back to the post and changed "lower" to "higher," to correct it.

I did not get what I would call aggressive. I told you what was wrong with your description, which I thought was why you weren't getting more useful answers. I did not tell you your problem doesn't exist. I tried to nail down exactly what it was. And I did not bash Super Vee to hurt you (how could it). I did it as an aside (I own one...unfortunately). Where you are coming up with this stuff is beyond me. But trust me; I wasn't attempting to be "aggressive" with you. I was attempting to straighten out your statements and provide a real solution. Criticism – often very detailed – is how you solve problems and make improvements. So instead of getting all hurt and upset, please go back and listen to what I was suggesting. It might work.

To get back to something in my second post, did your tech install the same strings, or at least the same string set, that you had on it when you dropped it off?

I think we have a new contented for "longest post [including quotation]" :D
 
Re: Trem Claw won't stay put when pulling up on whammy?

Uhm, am I the only one who has noticed that there is no tension on the vibrato springs?

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