Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

Chad

New member
Can't say how many threads I've seen over the years where a person asks about trem vs standard spacing and most members respond that it's pretty much just visual and doesn't really matter. It DOES matter with some setups.

Example: 2007 ESP GL-56 strat. It has a traditional, bent saddle vibrato bridge with 55mm spacing. The guitar came stock with a standard spaced Custom Shop Pearly Gates bridge model. Here is a pic of what it looked like:

IMG_0298 copy.jpg

Nice pickup but both E strings were NOTICEABLY quieter. I experimented with pickup height, pole piece height, etc. Nothing really worked. I rendered that pickup pretty much useless in this guitar. Kinda strange that George Lynch approved that pickup for a signature guitar, but seems like I heard this guitar is a replica of an older guitar he has or had. I guess he opted to mimic it, warts and all.

After much research, I ended up ordering a 53mm spaced Suhr Thornbucker +. Here is a pic with it installed:

IMG_0312 copy.jpg

It still doesn't line up perfectly, but at least both E strings are inline with at least part of the outer poles. Best of all, my E strings are back! Success!

Takeaway: if you have a super high output pickup, play with tons of gain or compression, and/or have a trem with narrower spacing (NOT vintage spacing), then maybe it can be mostly about visuals. But for this setup, it definitely mattered as far as having the E strings match the volume of the other strings.
 
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Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

Hard to say whether it's the F-spacing aspect you hear; it's oranges/apples because it's a diff. pickup. I have a ton of guitars where (even from the factory) the pole pieces are not in "proper" alignment, much as in your first pic; I have a couple guitars with adjustable string-spacing, and adjusting the strings over or off of the pole piece centers doesn't create a discernible difference in sound (to me.) That includes guitars like Jazzmasters/Jaguars with lower output pickups.

Visually it is something I can obsess over though. That said, that Suhr doesn't look as wide as an SD pickup with tremspacing... Maybe it's an illusion.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

Hard to say whether it's the F-spacing aspect you hear; it's oranges/apples because it's a diff. pickup. I have a ton of guitars where (even from the factory) the pole pieces are not in "proper" alignment, much as in your first pic; I have a couple guitars with adjustable string-spacing, and adjusting the strings over or off of the pole piece centers doesn't create a discernible difference in sound (to me.) That includes guitars like Jazzmasters/Jaguars with lower output pickups.

Visually it is something I can obsess over though. That said, that Suhr doesn't look as wide as an SD pickup with tremspacing... Maybe it's an illusion.

He's absolutely right about the apples to oranges comparison, unless you were to use the exact same pickup only tremspaced it's not really a controlled assessment? Plus it would stand to reason that even a SH-PG & TB-PG wouldn't sound exactly the same because the bobbins are slightly longer, which works out to more wire per turn on the winding machine, which works out to a slightly hotter pickup???

I don't know how much of that translates into real world tone & output, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that pole spacing does seem to make a slight difference in how a humbucker sounds. Of course that's just my opinion & I'm sure there's tons of guys who don't think it makes a bit of difference....
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

I guess so, but the pickups are at least kinda in the same ballpark....both are slightly hot PAF-style pickups. The Suhr measures 8.99k and the PG is 8.25k. A4 in the Suhr. Not sure on the PG because it's Custom Shop, but guessing it's still probably A2.

But to clarify, I never really had a problem with the TONE of the PG (including the E strings), just the VOLUME of the E strings.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

That said, that Suhr doesn't look as wide as an SD pickup with tremspacing... Maybe it's an illusion.

The pole-spacing is very similar. More specifically, the Suhr is actually a hair wider at 53mm vs Duncan at 52.6mm. However, Suhr uses the same bobbin width for both standard and trem-spaced pickups. Whereas with Duncan, the entire pickup is wider. This is one reason I opted to go with a Suhr pickup. They offer the widest pole spacing I'm aware of while also using a standard-sized bobbin. This guitar is kinda rare and I didn't want to have to modify or change the pickguard to fit an oversized pickup like a trem-spaced Duncan.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

I think most of the F vs not spaced threads I've been part of most posts have said 'it depends'.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

2007 ESP GL-56 strat

That's your biggest problem.

Also, keep in mind that "rare" doesn't mean "good" or "valuable". It just means "not very many". And in this case there is a perfectly good reason for that.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

Umkay, well that's just like you're opinion, man. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

FWIW, I have owned guitars from lots of brands and countries of origin. And from what I've seen, ESP Japan make some of the best and most consistent guitars in the world.

Rare indeed means not very many. But in this case, you're wrong. Several of George Lynch's signature guitars go in and out of production. This was actually the second run of this model. The first run was in the mid 90s. Then this run came out around 2007 or so. I can't remember, but I think it was possibly an intentional limited run. Whatever the case, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. LOL.
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

doesn't look much different than what the dude is doing with his GL54

photo3-1.jpg



maybe he thinks it's what works for him
 
Re: Trem/f-spacing is about more than just appearance...

I guess when it's that far out it wouldmake a difference. I had 48mm spaced in a hard tail and the strings were just over the poles and 50mm in a 53 spaced trem. It made no difference in the latter when I put a trem bucker in but in both installations the strings were still over the poles.
But in your top picture they are nowhere near.
My hard tail guitar won't take a trem bucker so it's now got SD APH2s in which are 49mm but the strings are spaced 52mm above the poles which means they only just sit over the outer poles - and they sound fine.
But my strings still sit over the poles on both the guitars.


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