I just had a custom-custom put in my strat(had someone do it as i'm no good at soldering) when to my dismay i find out the bucker i ordered that the poles dont line up! low e and a string are slitly outside the poles. Will this still work? will it effect the tone? M F didn't even have any trembucker options. Any help would be appreciated
trembucker ?
- Thread starter floyd1
- Start date
JacksonMIA
Lemur-buckerologist
Re: trembucker ?
Welcome aboard, bro.
Imp's right. It's mostly an aesthetic issue. The CC I had was the opposite way. I had a standard spaced one and needed a trembucker, but it never caused me any problems. If I still had it I'd trade with you.
Also, when you get ready to buy another one, there are a couple of guys on here that are dealers and they make sure you can tell the difference when you're ordering. Plus, they'll beat MF's prices, more than likely.
Welcome aboard, bro.
Imp's right. It's mostly an aesthetic issue. The CC I had was the opposite way. I had a standard spaced one and needed a trembucker, but it never caused me any problems. If I still had it I'd trade with you.
Also, when you get ready to buy another one, there are a couple of guys on here that are dealers and they make sure you can tell the difference when you're ordering. Plus, they'll beat MF's prices, more than likely.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: trembucker ?
If the strings are too far misaligned, you´ll notice an output drop on teh e strings, especially when playing clean. "Sklightly outside the poles" doesn´t sound like a big difference to me, though...
RE TB vs. Hb: It doesn´t bother most (drives me personally batty which is why I make sure to get whatever lines up better), but just because it doesn´t annoy them doesn´t mean the difference isn´t there and that it won´t bother you... listen to your ears on this one and not others opinions
But "no difference under any kind of gain": I disagree, when your e strings are still almost pristine while the rest is starting to overdrive the clean channel nicely, that´s an audible difference... but when you get into the rock area of gain the difference does become less aparrent...
If the strings are too far misaligned, you´ll notice an output drop on teh e strings, especially when playing clean. "Sklightly outside the poles" doesn´t sound like a big difference to me, though...
RE TB vs. Hb: It doesn´t bother most (drives me personally batty which is why I make sure to get whatever lines up better), but just because it doesn´t annoy them doesn´t mean the difference isn´t there and that it won´t bother you... listen to your ears on this one and not others opinions
But "no difference under any kind of gain": I disagree, when your e strings are still almost pristine while the rest is starting to overdrive the clean channel nicely, that´s an audible difference... but when you get into the rock area of gain the difference does become less aparrent...
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dr.barlo
New member
Re: trembucker ?
There might be a difference but I just never noticed it.
Zerb, the magnet bar is exactly the same. Sure the slug and screws (which sorta carry the magnetic field to where the strings are) are not perfectly aligned. The whole difference is just 2 milimeters. 50mm versus 52mm. I remember Steven Kersting anaylzing really big magnetographs (one with a 50mm HB and the other with a 52mm HB having the very same magnet bar) and concluding that there were no differences at all.
But maybe I am overlooking one thing. If the pickup winder is using the same amount of turns on both versions, then it might be that 2mm * 2 * the number of turns, might make a considerable difference. I dunno. If so, the trembucker would therefore be overwound and sound a little bit more bassy more midheavy, while the highs would be a little cut off.
Best,
B
There might be a difference but I just never noticed it.
Zerb, the magnet bar is exactly the same. Sure the slug and screws (which sorta carry the magnetic field to where the strings are) are not perfectly aligned. The whole difference is just 2 milimeters. 50mm versus 52mm. I remember Steven Kersting anaylzing really big magnetographs (one with a 50mm HB and the other with a 52mm HB having the very same magnet bar) and concluding that there were no differences at all.
But maybe I am overlooking one thing. If the pickup winder is using the same amount of turns on both versions, then it might be that 2mm * 2 * the number of turns, might make a considerable difference. I dunno. If so, the trembucker would therefore be overwound and sound a little bit more bassy more midheavy, while the highs would be a little cut off.
Best,
B
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: trembucker ?
Actually, the difference is 3 mm in spacing, standard SD buckers (and almost all vintage Buckers) have a 49mm spacing.
I´m not gonna say anything about SK because there´s not much to say either way. But If Lew can hear it, quite a few of my buddies can hear it, the magnetographs at work plotted one, I´ve recorded one and demoed it it back to myself, and most importantly my ears can hear a difference (I was highly skeptical too 10 years ago, long before I even had internet): Then I´m inclined to believe there is one.
If some people can hear the difference between a Dimebucker with and without brass inserts in the legs (sounds like total crap with them, I sold it afterwards as surface mountable after drilling them back out), then I´m more than inclined to believe that a difference in string alignment will be audible.
THis is not intended as a bash on anybody, but bottom line: just becasue your senses don´t sense something doesn´t mean it´s not there... it often only means you can´t see /hear /taste /smell feel it...
For ex. I can´t taste, smell or even see a difference between a Kebab at Sofra and a Kebab at Sultans... but others swear by the difference that Sultan´s meat is spicier and less dry. Yet I don´t assume that nobody else can taste it either, because I´m not an Übermensch
dr.barlo said:There might be a difference but I just never noticed it.
Zerb, the magnet bar is exactly the same. Sure the slug and screws (which sorta carry the magnetic field to where the strings are) are not perfectly aligned. The whole difference is just 2 milimeters. 50mm versus 52mm. I remember Steven Kersting anaylzing really big magnetographs (one with a 50mm HB and the other with a 52mm HB having the very same magnet bar) and concluding that there were no differences at all.
But maybe I am overlooking one thing. If the pickup winder is using the same amount of turns on both versions, then it might be that 2mm * 2 * the number of turns, might make a considerable difference. I dunno. If so, the trembucker would therefore be overwound and sound a little bit more bassy more midheavy, while the highs would be a little cut off.
Best,
B
Actually, the difference is 3 mm in spacing, standard SD buckers (and almost all vintage Buckers) have a 49mm spacing.
I´m not gonna say anything about SK because there´s not much to say either way. But If Lew can hear it, quite a few of my buddies can hear it, the magnetographs at work plotted one, I´ve recorded one and demoed it it back to myself, and most importantly my ears can hear a difference (I was highly skeptical too 10 years ago, long before I even had internet): Then I´m inclined to believe there is one.
If some people can hear the difference between a Dimebucker with and without brass inserts in the legs (sounds like total crap with them, I sold it afterwards as surface mountable after drilling them back out), then I´m more than inclined to believe that a difference in string alignment will be audible.
THis is not intended as a bash on anybody, but bottom line: just becasue your senses don´t sense something doesn´t mean it´s not there... it often only means you can´t see /hear /taste /smell feel it...
For ex. I can´t taste, smell or even see a difference between a Kebab at Sofra and a Kebab at Sultans... but others swear by the difference that Sultan´s meat is spicier and less dry. Yet I don´t assume that nobody else can taste it either, because I´m not an Übermensch
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dr.barlo
New member
Re: trembucker ?
Sure, spice makes all the difference when it comes to Kebabs. Believe me I know, I am gonna be here in the capital of Kebabs for another 6 months. Anyways,...
Zerb, I am not saying that you wouldn't hear a difference. By no means. BUT, is that difference due to the 49mm versus 52? (BTW the bobins I got from SK to start doing amateur attempts to wind buckers, all are 50mm's and I did not know SD's are 49's. Thanks ) For a controlled experiment, we gotta find 2 HBs one trem one normal, first try out the trem, unwind it, wound those wires on 49mm bobins exacly with the same pattern, use the very same slugs and screws and magnet bar. Of course that's impossible.
Would you, for example, agree that you might hear a difference between 2 HB, both the same model, both regular spaced, and the same resistance reading. I do. I have 2 antiquities (both bridges) 8.75K and 8.70K, and 8.70K sounds way more clean with the very same magnet. I dunno why.
On the other hand, I have 2 CC's one trem the other normal. And I do not hear any difference between the two on a floyd equipped guitar I might add.
Anyways, it's cool to disagree! :rocket:
What I am saying is those differences you hear might not be due to 2 or 3mm difference, but due to other things, like the stregth of the magnet, or them extra added resistance as I mentioned above, or who knnows...
Peace,
B
Sure, spice makes all the difference when it comes to Kebabs.
Believe me I know, I am gonna be here in the capital of Kebabs for another 6 months. Anyways,...Zerb, I am not saying that you wouldn't hear a difference. By no means. BUT, is that difference due to the 49mm versus 52? (BTW the bobins I got from SK to start doing amateur attempts to wind buckers, all are 50mm's and I did not know SD's are 49's. Thanks
) For a controlled experiment, we gotta find 2 HBs one trem one normal, first try out the trem, unwind it, wound those wires on 49mm bobins exacly with the same pattern, use the very same slugs and screws and magnet bar. Of course that's impossible.Would you, for example, agree that you might hear a difference between 2 HB, both the same model, both regular spaced, and the same resistance reading. I do. I have 2 antiquities (both bridges) 8.75K and 8.70K, and 8.70K sounds way more clean with the very same magnet. I dunno why.
On the other hand, I have 2 CC's one trem the other normal. And I do not hear any difference between the two on a floyd equipped guitar I might add.
Anyways, it's cool to disagree! :rocket:
What I am saying is those differences you hear might not be due to 2 or 3mm difference, but due to other things, like the stregth of the magnet, or them extra added resistance as I mentioned above, or who knnows...
Peace,
B
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: trembucker ?
WONDERFUL... Please find out what they traditionally spice the meat with and what they REALLY use for the Garlic-Joghurt sauce, those are the 2 points where my kebabs still suck :laugh2:
Very possible.... but then again, we SHOULD be able to assume that for ex. a JB is a JB is a JB, but even the slightest variances seem to make a difference.... Good point that the difference may have a different cause...
And yes, peace is good :beerchug:
dr.barlo said:Sure, spice makes all the difference when it comes to Kebabs.
WONDERFUL... Please find out what they traditionally spice the meat with and what they REALLY use for the Garlic-Joghurt sauce, those are the 2 points where my kebabs still suck :laugh2:
Now I get what you´re pointin´ at, and that´s true, it´s very possible... I also heard the difference between my ´80s JB and a newer one that was barely .1k hotter...... though surprisingly enough in my case the hotter one was the clearer one :saeek:....Would you, for example, agree that you might hear a difference between 2 HB, both the same model, both regular spaced, and the same resistance reading. I do. I have 2 antiquities (both bridges) 8.75K and 8.70K, and 8.70K sounds way more clean with the very same magnet. I dunno why.
On the other hand, I have 2 CC's one trem the other normal. And I do not hear any difference between the two on a floyd equipped guitar I might add.
Anyways, it's cool to disagree! :rocket:
What I am saying is those differences you hear might not be due to 2 or 3mm difference, but due to other things, like the stregth of the magnet, or them extra added resistance as I mentioned above, or who knnows...
Peace,
B
Very possible.... but then again, we SHOULD be able to assume that for ex. a JB is a JB is a JB, but even the slightest variances seem to make a difference.... Good point that the difference may have a different cause...
And yes, peace is good :beerchug:
JacksonMIA
Lemur-buckerologist
Re: trembucker ?
Although, I will say that if you're expecting a difference, it will be much more discernable if it's there.
You bring up a good point, Zerb. It's kinda like when I order a Dr. Pepper and the waitress brings a Mr. Pibb. I instantly know, and her tip goes down the toilet. Most everyone else looks at me like I'm crazy. I need to A/B a trembucker vs. standard. When I get the new CC for my Peavey, I'll have to try it. I'm glad I still have that recording!Zerberus said:Actually, the difference is 3 mm in spacing, standard SD buckers (and almost all vintage Buckers) have a 49mm spacing.
I´m not gonna say anything about SK because there´s not much to say either way. But If Lew can hear it, quite a few of my buddies can hear it, the magnetographs at work plotted one, I´ve recorded one and demoed it it back to myself, and most importantly my ears can hear a difference (I was highly skeptical too 10 years ago, long before I even had internet): Then I´m inclined to believe there is one.
If some people can hear the difference between a Dimebucker with and without brass inserts in the legs (sounds like total crap with them, I sold it afterwards as surface mountable after drilling them back out), then I´m more than inclined to believe that a difference in string alignment will be audible.
THis is not intended as a bash on anybody, but bottom line: just becasue your senses don´t sense something doesn´t mean it´s not there... it often only means you can´t see /hear /taste /smell feel it...
For ex. I can´t taste, smell or even see a difference between a Kebab at Sofra and a Kebab at Sultans... but others swear by the difference that Sultan´s meat is spicier and less dry. Yet I don´t assume that nobody else can taste it either, because I´m not an Übermensch
Although, I will say that if you're expecting a difference, it will be much more discernable if it's there.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: trembucker ?
One thing I have contemplated is that even though trem E strings are within the magnetic field on a standard pickup, they are to the side of the poles. So the question is, does that put the string vibrations into the crest of the magnetic field? In other words, in the area where the magnetic field starts to arc downward around the side of the coil? The magnetic field is dramtically different to the side of a coil than to the top, so at what point does your string begin to disturb the side of the magnetic field? I know it is far fetched, but it could have something to do with the tone of the E strings, more than the volume difference. Like if you raised the poles under the E strings, you increase output, but are now vibrating more to the side of the poles. A magnetograph would still tell you that you were within the magnetic field, but the disruption of the field might be different. It is pure self indulgent speculation and theory, not actually my opinion.
Anyway I hear a difference for sure, but I never cared enough to lose sleep over it. I have kind of gone through life collecting pickups all along the way as they come to me. So if I get the right deal or trade, I ignore the spacing. But I have always said that the wind is physically different, and that is the biggest reason why two same examples will sound different. Either they have to alter the number of turns to produce the same resistance, or match the turns and increase resisitance. They probably favor the same turns/more wire since part of the Trembucker marketing was also to add some beef to the sound that is lost with a 2-point knife edge floating trem. I think they were purposely letting them be darker.
One thing I have contemplated is that even though trem E strings are within the magnetic field on a standard pickup, they are to the side of the poles. So the question is, does that put the string vibrations into the crest of the magnetic field? In other words, in the area where the magnetic field starts to arc downward around the side of the coil? The magnetic field is dramtically different to the side of a coil than to the top, so at what point does your string begin to disturb the side of the magnetic field? I know it is far fetched, but it could have something to do with the tone of the E strings, more than the volume difference. Like if you raised the poles under the E strings, you increase output, but are now vibrating more to the side of the poles. A magnetograph would still tell you that you were within the magnetic field, but the disruption of the field might be different. It is pure self indulgent speculation and theory, not actually my opinion.
Anyway I hear a difference for sure, but I never cared enough to lose sleep over it. I have kind of gone through life collecting pickups all along the way as they come to me. So if I get the right deal or trade, I ignore the spacing. But I have always said that the wind is physically different, and that is the biggest reason why two same examples will sound different. Either they have to alter the number of turns to produce the same resistance, or match the turns and increase resisitance. They probably favor the same turns/more wire since part of the Trembucker marketing was also to add some beef to the sound that is lost with a 2-point knife edge floating trem. I think they were purposely letting them be darker.
