TRS versus TS (monitors)

[dg27]

I use an M-Box interface connected to a ProSonus headphone amp.

The ProSonus has left and right monitor outputs.

The manual says:

Connector type: 1/4 TRS, symmetrical, impedance-balanced.

The monitors I connected to use banana plugs.

I tried connecting with TS to banana plug speaker cable and they sound like crap (level is really low and when you increase the volume it distorts seriously).

Should I really be using TRS instead of TS? Could this be why it sounds so bad? I have never seen TRS speaker cable.

 

[dystrust]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

It sounds like the monitors you have are passive, while your interface has a line level output designed to drive active monitors. This amount of output is nowhere near enough to drive speakers which is why you have very low volume or a very distorted signal. You either need active monitors, or you need a power amp to drive the monitors you have.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Need to know more. Are your monitors active? Does the PreSonus have a headphone output?

 

[dg27]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

The PreSonus HP4 is a headphone amp with 4 headphone outputs and a separate monitor output section.

http://www.presonus.com/products/hp4

I assumed I could use passive since this is an amp; the speakers I tried were an old pair of passive Solids rated at 150W. I inherited them and had never used them.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Got it. Will reply shortly, not home right now.

 

[dg27]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Thanks, dystrust and TO...I think the ProSonus monitor output is indeed intended for active rather than passive monitors: from the googling I've done, regular speaker cable would never be TRS. Because the PreSonus monitor specifies TRS, I think this points to active. (Studio monitors like the various Samsons all use TRS connections and are active.)

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Okay, this looks like it is a headphone distribution amp ... 1 pair in, and 4 out, as well as PASS THROUGH for your main monitors, as well. Would be great if it had a mute for the monitor output instead of just a volume control, but still a pretty versatile box.

The signal flow is intended to be: interface monitor out > headphone amp in > headphone amp out > active monitors; individual headphone out > headphones 1-4.

The reason it is says TRS for the input is because it is balanced and can be either a TRS quarter inch (tip ring sleeve) or XLR with an adapter; the wiring is the same, just a different connector. Using TS cables (tip sleeve) from your interface to your monitors makes NO DIFFERENCE to the audio, it just has a different ground plane which may (or may not) make a difference.

The reason it has TRS for the output is because it needs to split 2 outputs (left and right) to a single connector: ie, your headphone jack. TRS enables you to do this (tip being one channel and ring being the other; sleeve being the common or negative/- on the signal).

Now ... line level output is not NEARLY loud enough to power a loudspeaker. However, some headphone amplifiers DO have enough power to drive a pair of loudspeakers. These are pretty rare, as you would need something akin to 1/2W output on the headphone jack and that could be dangerously loud for headphone use.

However, to do this you would need to go from one of the headphone outs with an INSERT adapter, breaking the left and right to 2 separate wires, and then have a cable which goes from 1/4" TS to whatever connector your loudspeakers need.

Personally, I think this will not sound good at all and would recommend either getting a small power amp, or just getting a pair of small (5") active monitors. I do most (95%) of my mixing on a pair of Samson 5" monitors, and then I use my big mains (8" JBL) for the last 5%.

 

[dg27]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Would be great if it had a mute for the monitor output instead of just a volume control, but still a pretty versatile box.

It does, on the front. That was one of the main selling points for me.

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation, re: TRS versus TS.

Personally, I think this will not sound good at all and would recommend either getting a small power amp, or just getting a pair of small (5") active monitors.

Actually, that's been my plan all along: get active monitors. I just got the ProSonus. I need something because I'll be recording with someone else on a regular basis who'll need a cue mix. (I tried the Solid speakers only because I had them lying around--nothing gained, nothing lost.)

I do most (95%) of my mixing on a pair of Samson 5" monitors, and then I use my big mains (8" JBL) for the last 5%.

I've been considering the Samson Resolv RXA6: Right now they are $199 a pop @ B&H and there's a Samson rebate for a free MTR 210 mic. I have one of those and I've had good experiences with it. Those go for $149 normally. I just don't know that I need two.

I am a big fan of JBL; would like to find something with a samll footprint because space is definitely a concern in a New York apartment (as it is it looks like Manny's already).

Thanks for all your help.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

My pleasure. Will respond to your PM later tonight.

 

[dg27]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Thanks!

 

[koshikas]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Connector type: 1/4 TRS, symmetrical, impedance-balanced.

The reason it has TRS for the output is because it needs to split 2 outputs (left and right) to a single connector: ie, your headphone jack. TRS enables you to do this (tip being one channel and ring being the other; sleeve being the common or negative/- on the signal).

i'm not exactly sure whether you guys are right on this one or whether i'm following you wrong, just raising my concern over this being symmetrical, impedance-balanced. I think OP should be notified about the two different applications of the TRS jack in this case. with Headphone Outputs the connector type is 1/4" TRS, unbalanced stereo; where Tip/Ring/Sleeve are for the left/right/ground just like you mentioned.

However the Monitor Outputs are 1/4” TRS, impedance-balanced; meaning that the 3 leads (T/R/S) are for; hot, cold, ground and that the impedance is lowered for noise cancellation and noise attenuation respectively and NOT left, right, ground. the hot and cold signal is identical except for them being totally out-of-phase with each other.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

You misunderstood, but I could've been clearer.

I was referring to to the headphone output's TRS mentioned above, not the monitor outputs. In that application, it is not used for a balanced audio connection, but a way to carry 2 channels of audio on a single connector.

The headphone amplifier's input, of course, is balanced TRS just like the monitor output on the interface.

Sorry if that was confusing, I was typing on the run.

 

[dg27]

Re: TRS versus TS (monitors)

Thanks, koshikas for weighing in and TO for clarifying.

It definitely seems that the issue I was facing was due to the fact that the ProSonus requires active monitors.