Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

[Swampy]

Or what I'm thinking their relationship is.

I'm relatively new to the whole recording/mixing thing. Or at least the attempt to make my recordings better. But I've got the bug. Been watching a crap load of YouTube stuff trying to fill my noggin with good info. For a while, I was wondering why my recordings didn't quite seem loud enough, but still clipped. I think I've narrowed it down to my lack of knowledge of compression. Could be wrong. Again, pretty newbish to this.

If you could, listen to these two tracks. Same recording. First one has a little compression and eq'd a little. Actually, pulled down in spots. Second one is the original recording. Does it sound like I'm on the right track? Not just looking for an increase in volume, but an overall better, smoother mix. I know I've got a long way to go, and it may be easier to not close mic amps, and just record through an amp sim or something, but that's not what I'm wanting.

BTW- I'm using Reaper.




Not Boosted. Just the title.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

When I mix, I try to EQ out certain things. On a track with only one instrument such as the one you presented to us here, I would say EQ is not gonna be your friend. To me EQ should be used when you have a guitar and you wanna roll out some of those lower frequencies to not interfere with the bass and drums. You EQ out some of the higher frequencies (thus allowing the guitar to sit in the mid range of the mix) to not interfere with the cymbals and vocals. Not to say that you shouldn't EQ your amp or whatever, but you really don't wanna use any EQ vst's or outboard EQ's one just one track. Compression is something I use only when a player is doing a lot of finger picking on guitar or there is drastic dynamics in a singer's voice. Dynamics are good and encouraged, but too much and the quieter parts will be too quiet. By just barely compressing enough and then boosting the overall track, you can hear everything much better. Close miking is a technique that I really like actually. I usually close mike an amplifier and then set another ambient mike farther away. Whatever mic I choose to close mic with, I always choose another that has a much different sound texture for the ambient mic. By combining the two in Pro-tools and then setting them for a master fader, I can set the ambient mic as a natural reverb and mix in what I want for the guitar. I did this on a friend's finger picked electric stuff and got really good results.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Get to learn to use multiband compression. Used wrong, it can make everything worse but used correctly, you can master your tracks in a way a standard compressor can't. First order of business is to set the bands by soloing each band and adjusting them until the right frequencies of the mix are divided correctly. Then you can stomp on the low end without causing any pumping, use gentler compression on the midrange without killing the snare transients and if you like, leave the treble completely alone. Reference your track against a similar sounding track that you want to get in the ballpark of to make sure the levels are right.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Compression/ EQ is a wonderful world isnt it?

TBH I wouldn't play around with mastering style global EQ and compression until you have a full mix going. That will help you understand big time.

If you want to get to the nitty gritty of compression/ EQ then play around with them on drums. Since they are very dynamic small adjustments can make a big difference.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

No amount of EQ or compression will work if it is wrong at the source.

My recommendation is to put together a playlist or burn a CD of reference tracks. Refer to specific reference tracks when mixing. This will give you a target range for your EQ and compression to know if you are moving in the correct direction.

Best part about refs is that they will reveal limitations in your room and playback system that will put your mix into sharp relief. In time you will get to know your rig well enough that you will only need to check back to your refs for very specific items.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-when-and-how-should-i-use-reference-tracks

http://www.homestudiocorner.com/use-a-reference-track-while-mixing/

http://www.audio-issues.com/music-mixing/how-to-use-a-reference-track-to-improve-your-mixing/


Mixing needn't be a solo endeavour; by all means, stand on the shoulders of the giants and copy everything you can!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Multiband compression is what they use to drive it louder. It is very tricky to use. It will be a long time until you can master something that way that sounds good in your studio AND in your car.

Don't forget stereo positioning beyond the basic pan switches. It also adds focus to where you want focus to be (just like in photography).

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Multiband compression is what they use to drive it louder. It is very tricky to use. It will be a long time until you can master something that way that sounds good in your studio AND in your car.

I could teach someone to do it in a free afternoon (but they would still want to practice it to do it consistently well). The process I mentioned is a good starting point. Set the bands first and foremost, I cannot stress that enough. Keep in mind that while there's no right or wrong order, eq before compression verses after will yield very different results. I prefer to get the frequency balance spot on in the mixing stage before any premastering happens. I'll run a linear phase EQ first in the master bus chain with very minimal adjustments for fine tuning/emphasis/sweetening/blah-blah-blah before the compression and limiting happens and that's before considering things like exciters, summing mixers, wideners and saturators. I used to just mix and send things off to be mastered but outside mastering places around here have been hit-miss and left me wanting. Becoming certified to do it myself has proved a better use of my time and saves a whole lot of cash.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I dont have the patience for mixing, I just use presets and equalize/compress really fast without much effort. Im more into playing music then computer programming it, but ya it is cool stuff either way

 

[Swampy]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I hear you on that.


I've always been into capturing sounds/music to some degree with whatever I had available. Now that I've been acquiring better gear to record with, I'm learning what I can to get a more professional end result. I've never dealt with some of these plug ins and effects, that in some cases seem to be necessary to get that. I'm actually really enjoying the process of learning this stuff. I have kind of an addictive personality, when I get into something...I get into it full bore. Could be worse things to be dabbling into. Lol

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I dont have the patience for mixing, I just use presets and equalize/compress really fast without much effort. Im more into playing music then computer programming it, but ya it is cool stuff either way

Ultimately, that is where the rubber meets the road. The problem with most musician/engineers is they can never finish what they start. You are the glaring exception to the rule and I would rather see it that way! Plus, your stuff sounds fine!

 

[thunderkyss]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Or what I'm thinking their relationship is.

I'm relatively new to the whole recording/mixing thing. Or at least the attempt to make my recordings better. But I've got the bug. Been watching a crap load of YouTube stuff trying to fill my noggin with good info. For a while, I was wondering why my recordings didn't quite seem loud enough, but still clipped. I think I've narrowed it down to my lack of knowledge of compression. Could be wrong. Again, pretty newbish to this.

If you could, listen to these two tracks. Same recording. First one has a little compression and eq'd a little. Actually, pulled down in spots. Second one is the original recording. Does it sound like I'm on the right track? Not just looking for an increase in volume, but an overall better, smoother mix. I know I've got a long way to go, and it may be easier to not close mic amps, and just record through an amp sim or something, but that's not what I'm wanting.

BTW- I'm using Reaper.




Not Boosted. Just the title.

Have you got all your tracks already done, or are you going to try to build around this track?

I ask, because the biggest issue I had with recording, engineering, mixing, composing.... is that I'd lose focus on the song. I got too involved with all that other stuff way too early in the process. If you're going to build around that track, then it's fine.

If you want it to sit in the mix better, then we really need to hear the rest of the tracks.

After you have your song built, then that should be the "demo." then work on producing the song. If that means re-recording some of the parts, which it usually does, then rerecord those parts. If you need the guitar track to be looser, with deeper lows, work on mic positioning then.

Eventually, you'll learn where the mic needs to be & how it needs to be treated to get the sound you want & you'll end up keeping more & more of your "demo" tracks.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Ultimately, that is where the rubber meets the road. The problem with most musician/engineers is they can never finish what they start. You are the glaring exception to the rule and I would rather see it that way! Plus, your stuff sounds fine!

cool thanks brutha :headbang:

I always like to see what you and others that mix/record professionally comment on in these threads, cheers :beerchug:

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

You might be interested in this. It's a full pre-production sheet from my band's last single which I produced. As thunderkyss described, we built it from the demo by using it as a guide to track the drums to and recording the final instruments to that.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...ng&highlight=what+goes+into+producing+a+song?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

You might be interested in this. It's a full pre-production sheet from my band's last single which I produced. As thunderkyss described, we built it from the demo by using it as a guide to track the drums to and recording the final instruments to that.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...ng&highlight=what+goes+into+producing+a+song?

I do something similar to this, and also make a 'panorama' schematic showing where all the elements will be placed in the sound field; helps to have the panorama already sorted out.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I do something similar to this, and also make a 'panorama' schematic showing where all the elements will be placed in the sound field; helps to have the panorama already sorted out.

It sounds complicated but it boils down to making sure you have an idea of what you want it to sound and how you want it to fit together. The important question should be "why". Before you add compression or eq or any effect, you should know what you want to acheive and how it will improve the sound. Never add a processor or plugin for the sake of it.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

In general, I would say EQ after compression. Otherwise your EQ changes are going to hit your compressor harder or not at all and the compressor is going to undo whatever you were trying to do with the EQ. There are exceptions, to everything, however.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Both have their place. I use compression on both my guitars and bass. Live. From a pedal into the front end. Eq. goes through the loop. Then it's all recorded live in stereo.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

In general, I would say EQ after compression. Otherwise your EQ changes are going to hit your compressor harder or not at all and the compressor is going to undo whatever you were trying to do with the EQ. There are exceptions, to everything, however.

I think you mean EQ before comp. Low frequencies push the compressor harder than mid and high freqs. EQ'ing first means you can play into the compressor harder.

The differences are subtle, and mostly chicken/egg with the 'what goes first' conundrum.

 

[Swampy]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

It sounds complicated but it boils down to making sure you have an idea of what you want it to sound and how you want it to fit together. The important question should be "why". Before you add compression or eq or any effect, you should know what you want to acheive and how it will improve the sound. Never add a processor or plugin for the sake of it.

You make a good point.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

You make a good point.

Probably the main point drilled into everyone at recording school. Always keep that question in mind. What does it need and why does it need it? You would be surprised how many people went in there with the idea that every track needs an eq and a compressor 'just 'cause'. There's quite a few bad habits hobbyists/armchair AEs develop that hinder rather than help.

It's long and boring but if you're interested, have a skim over that pre-production sheet I linked to if you want an idea just how much planning goes into getting it right and even after all that it never goes 100% to plan but if it did it would take most of the fun out of it.