Tube Amps And Personal Style

[barbarianbrute]

it occured to me that perhaps personal playing style has a lot to do with the type of tube amp you use. what i mean is that although marshalls sound killer and i really love their tone, i'm starting to think they're really not suited to me. laneys are great and probably fit me a little better than marshalls, but still not as fitting as say my el diablo.

looking back, my tone has always been better with 6L6 type amps. my el diablo being the only exception really, but it doesn't have that british flavor. perhaps brit sounding amps are just not my thing. it's kind of unfortunate because i really like british rock sounds.

so after going full circle, i've decided to stick to 6L6 type amps like fender, genz-benz, and mesa. for some reason i just sound better playing those than anything else.

how much does the type of amp you use affect your tone? do you find that you get better tone with certain amps than others?

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I think my playing has been sculpted by using a Roland Jazz Chorus for my first couple years playing electric guitar. Very unforgiving amp, and clean. Tightest low end you ever heard, but not lacking in low end in any way. Beautiful highs. I didn't use pedals. I still love to plug into it (it's my dad's) and just bust some licks.

From there I got a Marshall DSL 401, I bought it immediately after hearing the clean tone. Really, immediately. It was gorgeous - definitely had a warmth the Jazz Chorus didn't. And it was the perfect size, and it could run extra cabs. But alas the amp had many problems with reliability and the overdrive channels were awful. Also the clean channel did not sound good cranked. Nor did it like my TS808. I spent a lot of money on tubes and mods before finally getting rid of it.

I found my Fender sitting in my girlfriend's (at the time) room. My attention was focused on her til I spotted a mid 60s blackface Deluxe Reverb sitting in the corner, then it was all amp. I'm sure she didn't appreciate that - but she did want to get rid of the old thing. So I got it for 300 bucks. Hahahahah. Original speaker (I did put a Weber in) and RCA tubes and all.

Roland JC and Fender Deluxe Reverb

The cursed Marshall

My next step is a Marshall JTM 45 clone and Marshall 1966a angled 2x12". The DSL401 clean channel had a JTM 45 flavor and that's where the warmth I haven't been able to find since I sold it is.. but I don't have to tell you guys about JTM 45s. You know.

 

[baritone]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

My amp head is perfect for me. It's 35-watts RMS (about 45 square), and it has no tone controls- not even a volume knob. The guy who built it designed it to be a modified version of the late '50s Bassman with a pair of 6L6s, a 5U4 rectifier, and a single 12AX7. It just has an on/off switch, input jack, and a speaker out jack (8 ohms). I get awesome tones by plugging straight in and using my guitars' knobs for all volume and tone control, or I have 50 processors, which I use as preamps at different times. With so many effects, a stripped-down amp with a classy base tone is perfect for me.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

it occured to me that perhaps personal playing style has a lot to do with the type of tube amp you use. what i mean is that although marshalls sound killer and i really love their tone, i'm starting to think they're really not suited to me. laneys are great and probably fit me a little better than marshalls, but still not as fitting as say my el diablo.

Using "Marshall" as ageneric term is like using "Chevrolet."

What is the Marshall sound? Clapton in the BluesBreakers and Cream era? Metallica during the Ride The Lightning era? Hendrix' performance at Monterey? Slayer's "Reign In Blood" album? Lou Reed's live performance of "Sweet Jane?" Steve Vai during the DLR years? Gary Moore's "Still Got The Blues" leads? Slash's sound during "Appetite?" EVH's "Brown" sound?

All of these are classic "Marshall" sounds, but I don't think you'll be able to find tones that are more dis-similiar than those.

The hard part is being able to separate what your heroes sound like and what you sound good with. Some amps you just won't jive with for whatever reason. It's a bit of a letdown when you finally get to play through something you know someone you respect swears by only to find that it just isn't you.

And that's the hardest part of evolving as a musician; finding your own sound and voice and figuring out what it is that makes that work the most effectively.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Using "Marshall" as ageneric term is like using "Chevrolet."

What is the Marshall sound? Clapton in the BluesBreakers and Cream era? Metallica during the Ride The Lightning era? Hendrix' performance at Monterey? Slayer's "Reign In Blood" album? Lou Reed's live performance of "Sweet Jane?" Steve Vai during the DLR years? Gary Moore's "Still Got The Blues" leads? Slash's sound during "Appetite?" EVH's "Brown" sound?

All of these are classic "Marshall" sounds, but I don't think you'll be able to find tones that are more dis-similiar than those.

The hard part is being able to separate what your heroes sound like and what you sound good with. Some amps you just won't jive with for whatever reason. It's a bit of a letdown when you finally get to play through something you know someone you respect swears by only to find that it just isn't you.

And that's the hardest part of evolving as a musician; finding your own sound and voice and figuring out what it is that makes that work the most effectively.

that's it exactly. no matter how much i love the way some of these guys sound, i can't seem to click with it. although i like the sound of british amps (usually el34 types) the most, i don't personally sound nearly as good with them as i do with say 6L6 or 5881 types.

for instance, i seem to click well with mesa amps but prefer the tone of marshall in my ears. it seems though that i should stick with mesa just because it fits me better.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

It doesn't make as much difference to me anymore, as long as it is a decent tube amp. I used to be lost without my amp.


Make the amp work for you, not the other way around.

I have said it before and I will say it again..."Sometimes it isn't the equipment you have, it is how you use it."

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

It doesn't make as much difference to me anymore, as long as it is a decent tube amp. I used to be lost without my amp.


Make the amp work for you, not the other way around.

I have said it before and I will say it again..."Sometimes it isn't the equipment you have, it is how you use it."

i think for some people equipment is more important. look at hendrix, clapton, srv, malmsteen, etc... they all use strats and marshalls. i suppose they could have used any kind of equipment, but that must have worked best for them. i think there's a certain feel and responsiveness to certain gear that just works better for some people.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

British voiced amps work best for me - Marshalls, Vox. I love Fender Twins and have been messing with the Twin model in my Valvetronix (great sounding model too) but sometimes I just can't jive with it and I end up changing that patch to something else. Even when I would play around with a real Twin I couldn't get it to work for me all the time. I'm trying to make it work for me now with some different settings and so far, so good. I've got it right to the point where it barely breaks up, you really have to dig in, and that has helped.

But overall, I love British amps. Those get me my tone or help me enhance my tone better than anything else.

FWIW, SRV used Fender amps mostly, Super Reverbs turns up REALLY loud and hit with a couple Tube Screamers. He'd use a Marshall in the studio but a majority of his amp tone was Fender.

 

[mjarema414]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I think if the player has good "feel" or plays with emotion rather than fancy licks, they can make any amp work given that there is enough output for the situation. THat being said, good "feel" into a quality vintage tube amp should equal magic. I love the sound of a cranked vintage fender amp whether it's a deluxe reverb, vibrolux, super reverb or whatever with no pedals. That's the sound I love and feel.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I think if the player has good "feel" or plays with emotion rather than fancy licks, they can make any amp work given that there is enough output for the situation. THat being said, good "feel" into a quality vintage tube amp should equal magic. I love the sound of a cranked vintage fender amp whether it's a deluxe reverb, vibrolux, super reverb or whatever with no pedals. That's the sound I love and feel.

sounds like a contradiction because you named a bunch of fender amps. i've been playing for a while and i don't think anyone can just grab ANY amp or guitar and start playing their best with optimum tone. that's BS in my book. if you're a marshall jtm45 player and all the sudden start playing friggin mesa amps, i doubt you're going to be at your peak. sure anyone can get used to playing any equipment, but there must be some kind of personalization to equipment.

as far as fancy licks, if the song calls for it then great. anyone who plays music plays with feeling, IMO. whether YOU can feel what they're playing or someone else is subjective. some people might think rusty cooley still plays with emotion. i don't personally listen to his music, but i've heard him several times before and i don't think he always necessarily sounds mechanical.

he used to play in a hybrid rock band before his solo stuff, so he wasn't always shred-shred-shred-shred-shred.

i'm learning that you have to personalize your equipment to optimize your playing and tone.

 

[mjarema414]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

sounds like a contradiction because you named a bunch of fender amps. i've been playing for a while and i don't think anyone can just grab ANY amp or guitar and start playing their best with optimum tone. that's BS in my book. if you're a marshall jtm45 player and all the sudden start playing friggin mesa amps, i doubt you're going to be at your peak. sure anyone can get used to playing any equipment, but there must be some kind of personalization to equipment.

as far as fancy licks, if the song calls for it then great. anyone who plays music plays with feeling, IMO. whether YOU can feel what they're playing or someone else is subjective. some people might think rusty cooley still plays with emotion. i don't personally listen to his music, but i've heard him several times before and i don't think he always necessarily sounds mechanical.

he used to play in a hybrid rock band before his solo stuff, so he wasn't always shred-shred-shred-shred-shred.

i'm learning that you have to personalize your equipment to optimize your playing and tone.

Didn't mean to offend you but I disagree entirely. I don't really know what you're talking about. ANYONE can play with feel is BS dude. If you want to start comparing people, I'll win this debate! It's not a competition although some people make music a competative thing. There is a lot of "fluff" music out there that really sucks and IMO, this is what's wrong with music today.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Didn't mean to offend you but I disagree entirely. I don't really know what you're talking about. ANYONE can play with feel is BS dude. If you want to start comparing people, I'll win this debate! It's not a competition although some people make music a competative thing. There is a lot of "fluff" music out there that really sucks and IMO, this is what's wrong with music today.

i'm not offended and you're right, there is a lot of sucky music out there. but you're not getting my point about feel. a sucky player can play with feel. music carries some kind of feeling in every respect. that's the difference between music and noise.

honestly, i think the whole "feeling" or "soul" thing is a cop out for a lot of players who can't get their chops up to speed. they're always complaining about people who don't play with heart because they play too fast or whatever, but that's b.s. in my book. i think it's because their playing is limited in scope that they have to rest on the whole feel player thing.

IN MY OPINION, david gilmour plays with more feel or soul than say larry carlton. others may disagree beause they might not connect with gilmour's music as they might with carlton. therein lies the real debate. in either case, they both play with soul, but whether you connect with them is subjective.

 

[mjarema414]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

It doesn't make as much difference to me anymore, as long as it is a decent tube amp. I used to be lost without my amp.


Make the amp work for you, not the other way around.

I have said it before and I will say it again..."Sometimes it isn't the equipment you have, it is how you use it."

I AGREE!

 

[Loserchief]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Being addicted to the Engl sound i heavily prefer german amp voicing(nothing sounds like Engl). But Engls are more american in style than british. The are 6L6 mostly, they have more fender-like cleans and the gain and punch of mesas. But in the end they have a certain tightness and aggressiveness nothing else has. Also they are best for me because every four-channel Engl will do a great job on all its channels not just on one or two.
I can work with others but i need Engl to feel really happy.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

honestly, i think the whole "feeling" or "soul" thing is a cop out for a lot of players who can't get their chops up to speed. they're always complaining about people who don't play with heart because they play too fast or whatever, but that's b.s. in my book. i think it's because their playing is limited in scope that they have to rest on the whole feel player thing.

WHOOA don't open that can of worms and make me really angry please... I think we settled this argument a month ago or so in the off topic that htere are culprits on both sides ("slow and soulful" vs "speed and ability"). All I have to say is - look at a classic jazz example everyone knows - Miles Davis, he played faster than shredders sometimes and other times he just sang out a couple of long notes for the whole song and either way, on either side of the spectrum, he played with all his heart and never ever sounded square or lifeless.

Anyway back on topic of the amp: I like the sound of 6L6s mostly - American type sounds in general. So I think my Tweed amp suits me well, I can have the super clean tones + slightly driven tone. Then when you crank up a tweed it crunches sorta like a Marshall type amp, so I have the best of both worlds in a sense!

 

[mjarema414]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

honestly, i think the whole "feeling" or "soul" thing is a cop out for a lot of players who can't get their chops up to speed. they're always complaining about people who don't play with heart because they play too fast or whatever, but that's b.s. in my book. i think it's because their playing is limited in scope that they have to rest on the whole feel player thing.

I don't know man...It's not about chops...There are tons of players that have good chops but do nothing for me. I don't go out to see a player because they're good. There needs to be something happening musically on stage between the players. I am unimpressed by chops and more impressed with a band working as a unit with good music happening.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Being addicted to the Engl sound i heavily prefer german amp voicing(nothing sounds like Engl). But Engls are more american in style than british. The are 6L6 mostly, they have more fender-like cleans and the gain and punch of mesas. But in the end they have a certain tightness and aggressiveness nothing else has. Also they are best for me because every four-channel Engl will do a great job on all its channels not just on one or two.
I can work with others but i need Engl to feel really happy.

i don't have much experienc with engle amps. i've tried a couple before, but i'd really like to have one for a day.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Personally, I can use any amp and guitar to get a good enough tone. That doesn't mean I don't PREFER certain equipment, but I could easily go from my Bassman and SG to a Telecaster and an Orange, then to a Jackson and a Marshall...they're all six-stringed, 20+ fretted guitars plugged into amps, and they all have knobs to adjust the tone to your liking.

One might have his preferences but at the end of the day, it's not the gear you're using but the notes you're playing. Thinking that you MUST use YOUR PERSONALIZED RIG to sound good is just gonna get in your way...

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I don't think the issue has even been...speed V's soul. Some people can also play fast with feeling or slow without feeling.

This relates to what i would like to say. We do get to rely on certain equipment to do our most inspired work. However, if we aspire to become a musician or entertainer or whatever, there will be times when we are someplace without our trusty gear and someone hands us a guitar and says..."you play...so go on, play for us....". What are we going to say?

A good valve amp will respond to a player's touch, it's almost like there's a spongy, 2-way thing going on through the guitar cable, and that is very inspirational. The combinations of guitar, amp, touch, vary and as we learn, our own tastes and technques change with time too. But eventually a player can develop such a recogniseble touch that they seem to sound like themselves no matter what gear they play through. Their 'voice' becomes stronger than the gear factor.

Earlier on in our development, most of us probably experiment with gear and go on the long and usually costly path of trying out so much stuff. It is pretty normal, a learning curve like any other, learning by using and experiencing. Interestingly, many older players i know tell me that they often somehow had great gear at the beginning but spent years trying out anything and everything, only to eventually decide the gear they liked best was what they started with! Of course by then it is likely that they have developed their own voice and will sound like themselves regardless, so then the gear still has some effect, but possibly a lesser effect as it did years before.

We can be 'led' or influenced by gear, but as someone has already stated, better to have a vision of the sound we want then make the gear work for us, and not the other way around.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I agree definately that today there are 3 sounds, American, British, German. Engl being the only amp company from gearmany so far that is well known, but unique, the way I think of Engl is like what would happen if Vox decided to cut into Mesa's market, I know it sounds weird. I think its impossible to do a euro PowerMetal thing with a Fender twin, and Maroon 5 really dont need a VHT pitbull. But other than that its combination of pups, stomps, and guitars, that are just as important.