Tube Power Amp Question

[JLagoon]

Hi all,

How much does a tube power amp (whether it's EL84 or 6L6 based) affect your original preamp signal?

Suppose that one uses an EL84 based power amp, does this mean that his preamp signal has more midrange?

I like my rack preamp signal already, and am wondering whether I should get a tube or solid state power amp. Should I go with solid state, I'm going to get Tech21 Power Engine.

Thanks!

 

[Duke of Metal]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Hi all,

How much does a tube power amp (whether it's EL84 or 6L6 based) affect your original preamp signal?

Suppose that one uses an EL84 based power amp, does this mean that his preamp signal has more midrange?

I like my rack preamp signal already, and am wondering whether I should get a tube or solid state power amp. Should I go with solid state, I'm going to get Tech21 Power Engine.

Thanks!

whats the preamp your using? Each power tube has a different tonal characteristic.

EL84 - early breakup which means there is a bit more power tube saturation if they're driven hard. it doesnt take much for EL84s to get driven hard. They have a sweet highend and good crunchy mids. Not alot of low end.

EL34 - this is what people call the "marshall" crunch tube. It has alot of mids or sorta between mids and highs. Crunchy sounding tube. Also not alot of headroom but a bit more then EL84s. Lots of solid crunchy mids, loose lowend and sometimes lacking and crisp highend

E34Ls (by JJ tubes) - Same as the EL34s but with a more low end thats tigther and the overall tone is more aggressive, specially when cranked.

6L6 - Tight sounding tube. Lots of low/lowmid type tone and very clear crisp highs. Lacks a bit on the mids but nothing too much. Very clean sounding and sometimes hard to drive. Fat sounding too.

5881 - similar to 6L6 but I think a bit less lowend and less aggressive. Also alot of people say its less toneful then 6L6s.

KT88s - very very clean sounding tube. Lots of lowend thump and clear overall tone. almost impossible to get power tube saturation from this unless you really crank it.. and trust me, these things need to be cranked to an ear bleeding level. Very tight sounding and very solid.

6550s - The same as the KT88s, but alot of people seem to say these are a bit more "colder" and stiffer sounding then KT88s.
--------

So if you like your preamp's tone/distortion and want to keep that distortion clean, then your best bet is to look into a poweramp that has KT88s or 6550s. Even maybe 6L6s that are graded for number 10 (using the Groove Tubes power tubes grading system).

Good luck and hope that helps

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for the reply!

I have a Marshall preamp. It's not a JMP-1, it's basically the "head" from my marshall combo that has a preamp tube JJ 12AX7s. I use a pedal for distortion. They are all connected to rack compressor, delay, etc.

I usually use my gear for direct recording, and like the sound of it. Now that I need a power amp to perform live, I was wondering if having a tube power amp is comparable to having a fixed "filter" that modifies the frequency of your signal in any way, e.g. EQ.

By the way, I know about the break up thing, but you probably won't hear it if you are on distortion mode, right? It wouldn't make the distortion "better," would it?

 

[Duke of Metal]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for the reply!

I have a Marshall preamp. It's not a JMP-1, it's basically the "head" from my marshall combo that has a preamp tube JJ 12AX7s. I use a pedal for distortion. They are all connected to rack compressor, delay, etc.

I usually use my gear for direct recording, and like the sound of it. Now that I need a power amp to perform live, I was wondering if having a tube power amp is comparable to having a fixed "filter" that modifies the frequency of your signal in any way, e.g. EQ.

By the way, I know about the break up thing, but you probably won't hear it if you are on distortion mode, right? It wouldn't make the distortion "better," would it?

ahh ok! ofcourse power tubes breakup/saturation will affect your tone.. whether your playing on cleans or distortion, it'll affect it. But, it'll depend on the tube. Some tubes like EL84s, EL34s/E34Ls, 6L6s have a good tone when driven hard and get into the saturation level. tubes like KT88 and 6550s will be like i said, almost impossible to breakup.

if you like your sound, then maybe what you need is a solidstate poweramp or a tube poweramp with high wattage.

Whats your spending budget?

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for being helpful Duke of Metal.

Well, I think that a tube power amp is my choice. And for preserving the original tone, maybe a cabinet with full range speakers. How does that sound?

The budget is below $800. I don't need the best, I only need a good tube power amp that lasts. Perhaps 50 watts in stereo (50L/50R) would be just fine.

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Oh, and FYI I play hard rock, but none of them nu-rock or whatever it is called.

Thanks!

 

[lastwinj]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

tube power amp. accept no substitutes. if you want the sound, go with one. if you dont, go with solid state. end of story.

germ

 

[Duke of Metal]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for being helpful Duke of Metal.

Well, I think that a tube power amp is my choice. And for preserving the original tone, maybe a cabinet with full range speakers. How does that sound?

The budget is below $800. I don't need the best, I only need a good tube power amp that lasts. Perhaps 50 watts in stereo (50L/50R) would be just fine.

You can check into the Carvin Ts100. Its a 2x50watts stereo tube poweramp. has 4 EL34s and 4 12ax7s. I think it goes for $499usd. If you get that, get some JJ 6L6Gcs from www.dougstubes.com that are graded between #8 or 10 using the Groove Tubes system so they can provide you with a maximum headroom level. The Higher number, the more headroom they'll have.

The TS100 comes stock with EL34s. They wont provide alot of headroom and if you crank them good and get a good hot signal on them, then they'll distor.

I've got the older Carvin T100 tube poweramp for sale if that interests you.

hope that helps!

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for the offer Duke! I'm thinking of getting a Mesa 20/20 Dynawatt. :burnout:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

I was just gonna say, go with a used Mesa, like the 4 rackspace bigblocks.
The 295 is an awesome Mesa power amp, which has depreciated enough that you can swoop one up fairly cheap. A good cheap one is the Peavey Classic 60/60. I'm more of a fan of loud EL-34 power amps like the 100/100 Marshall, but if you want neutral loud clean power, the 6L6's Mesas rule the roost. I don't particularly like EL-84 power amps, because they don't have the big low end and headroom.

I agree with lastwinj(germ). SS doesn't sound terrible in a modeling head, but in a rack setup, they're just awful.

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

I play a 7 string Ibanez and a les paul. I think that it's fair to say that I play progressive rock and the distortion sound that I like is Petrucci's. I already have a pretty deep preamp tone; it sounds deep enough to cut through without being overwhelming. Can the 20/20 accommodate these?

The reason why I choose the 20/20 is because people say on HC.com that it is plenty loud, warm, round, etc. So, I figured that I don't really need the "loudness" of a 100 watt tube power amp and the 20 watt would allow tube saturation to occur without cranking it up too much. I'm not going to play big arena anyway.

Oh, and there's the "deep mod" for it.

 

[JLagoon]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

By the way, do you guys have a cabinet suggestion that would go with this setup? Preferably a 2x12 in stereo.

 

[greendy123]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

I heard good things about cabs from here. http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

 

[Duke of Metal]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Thanks for the offer Duke! I'm thinking of getting a Mesa 20/20 Dynawatt. :burnout:

hey.. no problem at all.

the Mesa 20/20 is good, but alot of people have complained about it getting overdriven/power tubes saturation when driven hard. EL84s will definitly affect your tone (maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way). Best way to find out is to try it your self.

JP always used amps with 6L6s I believe. The mesa 50/50 would probebly be a better choice and you can get them for as the Mesa 20/20.


Good luck,
Cheers

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Can a KT88 work as a direct replacement for a 6L6?

 

[Duke of Metal]

Re: Tube Power Amp Question

Can a KT88 work as a direct replacement for a 6L6?

not as a direct replacement. Some amps need some modding for that.. but most amps out there cant be modded for those, unless you replace the output transformers. By doing that, you'll be getting into a bit of good money spending. so at the end, its better just to save money and buy an amp that takes KT88s.

I believe some amps that take EL34s can be modded for those. I believe the Marshall JCM800 series amps (2203 models) can be modded for those.


Cheers!