Yngwiestein
New member
Who can explain the differences, advantages/disadvantages of both?
Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
- Thread starter Yngwiestein
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bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Tube - generally softer sounding, gives a saggy feel to the amp and lets notes "bloom".
Solid state - A little harder sounding, generally allows more clean headroom, makes the amp feel stiffer.
These are just generalizations...YMMV.
Tube - generally softer sounding, gives a saggy feel to the amp and lets notes "bloom".
Solid state - A little harder sounding, generally allows more clean headroom, makes the amp feel stiffer.
These are just generalizations...YMMV.
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
but basically correct, neither is better and both have their uses. if you want fast attack and a tight focused bottom, ss might be a better choice. you play classic rock and a gz34 might be the ticket, blues a 5y3 might be perfect for you
but basically correct, neither is better and both have their uses. if you want fast attack and a tight focused bottom, ss might be a better choice. you play classic rock and a gz34 might be the ticket, blues a 5y3 might be perfect for you
rashayritto
Off-Topic Lurker
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
btw, is a phase inverter just a rectifier under a different name?
btw, is a phase inverter just a rectifier under a different name?
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
no. a phase inverter or phase splitter takes the signal from the preamp, juices it up and splits into two identical but 180 out of phase signals that get fed to the push pull power section. with the + pushing and the - pulling you end up with positive reinforcement.
a recto takes ac wall voltage and turns it into dc for the amp to use. a ss recto is very efficient, tubes are to varying degrees less efficient which results in more sag and lower voltages
no. a phase inverter or phase splitter takes the signal from the preamp, juices it up and splits into two identical but 180 out of phase signals that get fed to the push pull power section. with the + pushing and the - pulling you end up with positive reinforcement.
a recto takes ac wall voltage and turns it into dc for the amp to use. a ss recto is very efficient, tubes are to varying degrees less efficient which results in more sag and lower voltages
SlyFoxx
Glossless
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
No. It's the pre-amp tube that creates the push/pull needed for the class AB power stage. Most amps are class AB.
EDIT: And J is quicker!
No. It's the pre-amp tube that creates the push/pull needed for the class AB power stage. Most amps are class AB.
EDIT: And J is quicker!
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Is the phase inverter usually a lower gain tube, like a 12AY7? How much effect does it have on tone?
And what's the difference between the gz34 and 5y3? Is the the 5y3 'softer' with more sag than the gz34?
Is the phase inverter usually a lower gain tube, like a 12AY7? How much effect does it have on tone?
And what's the difference between the gz34 and 5y3? Is the the 5y3 'softer' with more sag than the gz34?
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
pi's can be lots of tubes, usually dual triodes but you can do it with just one.
tweed fenders and all the amps that followed that design used a 12ax7. when fender switched to the blackface amps they usually used a 12at7 to keep the sound cleaner. the tube itself doesnt really effect tone all that much but the way that signal interacts with the power section can change things quite a bit. a stronger pi tube will drive the power section harder which will sound different.
the gz34 has less internal resistance, less sag and a larger capacity than the 5y3. in some amps you could put a 5y3 in place of a gz34 to give the amp a little less volume, less headroom, a spongier feel and browner tone, in many of those amps the tube wont last as long due to the fact that it is being worked very hard. you want to be careful putting a gz34 in an amp that uses a 5y3 cause the voltages might climb too high. a good rule of thumb is that if you dont know what youre doing, dont do it until you find out
pi's can be lots of tubes, usually dual triodes but you can do it with just one.
tweed fenders and all the amps that followed that design used a 12ax7. when fender switched to the blackface amps they usually used a 12at7 to keep the sound cleaner. the tube itself doesnt really effect tone all that much but the way that signal interacts with the power section can change things quite a bit. a stronger pi tube will drive the power section harder which will sound different.
the gz34 has less internal resistance, less sag and a larger capacity than the 5y3. in some amps you could put a 5y3 in place of a gz34 to give the amp a little less volume, less headroom, a spongier feel and browner tone, in many of those amps the tube wont last as long due to the fact that it is being worked very hard. you want to be careful putting a gz34 in an amp that uses a 5y3 cause the voltages might climb too high. a good rule of thumb is that if you dont know what youre doing, dont do it until you find out
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
In modern circuits, the rectifier is four diodes wired in a "box" (known as a bridge rectifier). This design ensures that the current draw is constant, which means the pre and power tubes are always getting all the power they need.
A tube rectifier does more or less the same thing, but it is a much less efficient circuit and can't always keep up with the current demands of the pre and power tubes. When the signal is weak, the tube has no problem supplying the correct voltage, but when you hit your amp with a really hot signal, the voltage "sags" because the tube rectifier can't cope. This results in a temporary "brown sound" type of thing, where the power tubes break up earlier and put out a bit less volume until the rectifier catches up and sends the required amount of juice. To your ear, this means more power tube distortion when you dig in, and some subtle compression.
The best way to observe this in action is on an amp with a switchable rectifier, like a Mesa Dual Rec, Triple Rec, or Stiletto.
In modern circuits, the rectifier is four diodes wired in a "box" (known as a bridge rectifier). This design ensures that the current draw is constant, which means the pre and power tubes are always getting all the power they need.
A tube rectifier does more or less the same thing, but it is a much less efficient circuit and can't always keep up with the current demands of the pre and power tubes. When the signal is weak, the tube has no problem supplying the correct voltage, but when you hit your amp with a really hot signal, the voltage "sags" because the tube rectifier can't cope. This results in a temporary "brown sound" type of thing, where the power tubes break up earlier and put out a bit less volume until the rectifier catches up and sends the required amount of juice. To your ear, this means more power tube distortion when you dig in, and some subtle compression.
The best way to observe this in action is on an amp with a switchable rectifier, like a Mesa Dual Rec, Triple Rec, or Stiletto.
Yngwiestein
New member
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Thanks bro. What do you mean by "bloom" and "stiff" exactly? To me more headroom seems looser so in what regards do you use the term "stiff?"
Sheesh Jeremy! Do you build amps too bro? This geeky amp stuff is fantastic. I'm soaking it up like a sponge!
Thanks bro. What do you mean by "bloom" and "stiff" exactly? To me more headroom seems looser so in what regards do you use the term "stiff?"
Sheesh Jeremy! Do you build amps too bro? This geeky amp stuff is fantastic. I'm soaking it up like a sponge!
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
"Bloom" is when after you pick the note it gets bigger....less attack and a more round sound.
"Stiff" is when the amp makes the strings on your guitar seem like they are tighter...it is a feel thing.
"Bloom" is when after you pick the note it gets bigger....less attack and a more round sound.
"Stiff" is when the amp makes the strings on your guitar seem like they are tighter...it is a feel thing.
Yngwiestein
New member
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Ah thanks bro. A little confused tho because a Fender Deville for instance has an ss rectifier and to me has a lot of headroom but feels loose. My Budda Superdrive on the other hand has a tube rectumfrier and it's very tight. What am I missing here?
Ah thanks bro. A little confused tho because a Fender Deville for instance has an ss rectifier and to me has a lot of headroom but feels loose. My Budda Superdrive on the other hand has a tube rectumfrier and it's very tight. What am I missing here?
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Speakers, cabinets and other things effect feel as well.
I had a Tremoverb that you could switch between tube and solid state rectifiers. I preferred the tube rec for most stuff except maybe metal.
Speakers, cabinets and other things effect feel as well.
I had a Tremoverb that you could switch between tube and solid state rectifiers. I preferred the tube rec for most stuff except maybe metal.
Ascension
Well-known member
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
Most all has been covered here allready. My Fender Prosonics have a triple rec set up SS rec at 60 watts, A/B tube at 45 watts with a 5U4 and tube rec class A at 30 watts. I use the class A most of the time for smaller gigs as the class A feel at lower volumes is softer and the tones bigger. Most of the time at higher volumes I use the SS rec mode for extra headroom on the cleans and a tighter tone. The tube rec A/B mode is indeed softer in feel and the bottom looser.
The PI can make a big differenece in how an amp responds and the noise floor.
With a 12AT7 the Whitford 100 watt head it has a noticably softer more mellow vibe. Drop in a hot 12AX7 and the amp gets noticably louder, tighter and more punchy. With a new New Sensor Ballanced Mullard in the PI the amp just sings in the high gain mode and the harmonics just jump out. With a CV 4024 Mullard 12AT in the PI it was noticably softer in feel, lower in volume and much harder to break the amp into controlled harmonic feedback.
On the Super Sonic I had the PI choice was absolutely critical. Using a premieum 12AT was the only way to get the noise floor down on those amps. With a 12AX in the PI the white noise was so high that the amp was unsusable in the studio. The stock Sovetec AT was allmost as bad but a CV 4024 NOS Mullard made the amp run almost dead silent.
Most all has been covered here allready. My Fender Prosonics have a triple rec set up SS rec at 60 watts, A/B tube at 45 watts with a 5U4 and tube rec class A at 30 watts. I use the class A most of the time for smaller gigs as the class A feel at lower volumes is softer and the tones bigger. Most of the time at higher volumes I use the SS rec mode for extra headroom on the cleans and a tighter tone. The tube rec A/B mode is indeed softer in feel and the bottom looser.
The PI can make a big differenece in how an amp responds and the noise floor.
With a 12AT7 the Whitford 100 watt head it has a noticably softer more mellow vibe. Drop in a hot 12AX7 and the amp gets noticably louder, tighter and more punchy. With a new New Sensor Ballanced Mullard in the PI the amp just sings in the high gain mode and the harmonics just jump out. With a CV 4024 Mullard 12AT in the PI it was noticably softer in feel, lower in volume and much harder to break the amp into controlled harmonic feedback.
On the Super Sonic I had the PI choice was absolutely critical. Using a premieum 12AT was the only way to get the noise floor down on those amps. With a 12AX in the PI the white noise was so high that the amp was unsusable in the studio. The stock Sovetec AT was allmost as bad but a CV 4024 NOS Mullard made the amp run almost dead silent.
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rashayritto
Off-Topic Lurker
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
so if i dont have a recto tube i can assume i have a SS rectifier? wow both of the tube amps ive owned have had ss rectifiers and i cant imagine making them sound looser. or is the difference more subtle? most hard rock/metal amps like marshalls use tube rectifiers (cept the jubilie to my knowledge )
btw, nice to see you Ascension!
so if i dont have a recto tube i can assume i have a SS rectifier? wow both of the tube amps ive owned have had ss rectifiers and i cant imagine making them sound looser. or is the difference more subtle? most hard rock/metal amps like marshalls use tube rectifiers (cept the jubilie to my knowledge )
btw, nice to see you Ascension!
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Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
i do a little of everything, mostly just for myself and my friends but there are a couple people out there that have guitars with pickups and amps all made by me. kinda funny cause even i dont do that.
lots of stuff goes into the feel and sound of an amp, so by just looking at one piece of it youll never get a good idea of what itll sound or feel like.
if you dont have a tube then you have a ss recto, tube amps need a recto to function. marshall hasnt used a tube recto since the jtm45. plexis are ss
i do a little of everything, mostly just for myself and my friends but there are a couple people out there that have guitars with pickups and amps all made by me. kinda funny cause even i dont do that.
lots of stuff goes into the feel and sound of an amp, so by just looking at one piece of it youll never get a good idea of what itll sound or feel like.
if you dont have a tube then you have a ss recto, tube amps need a recto to function. marshall hasnt used a tube recto since the jtm45. plexis are ss
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
That is funny, Jeremy...I have made dozens of knives for folks and I don't use one of my own.
Sorry about the hijack...back to the regular scheduled programming.
That is funny, Jeremy...I have made dozens of knives for folks and I don't use one of my own.
Sorry about the hijack...back to the regular scheduled programming.
rashayritto
Off-Topic Lurker
Re: Tube vs Solid State Rectifiers
ooh thanks for clearing that up. i guess tube rectos arent for me (yet)
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