Tubes and the way they Sound?

cakire82

cakire82

Cake Mire
I have used solid state amps for all my life. I have tried couple tube amps here and but I have never owned one. I have noticed they might come with a lot of different types of tubes. (EL34s 6L6s...etc) What are the most popular tubes out there and what type of sounds are they used for?

I have noticed that most of the marshalls come with EL34 where more modern sounding amps come with 6L6. is this a true observation?
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

Your question is difficult to answer concisely and without resorting to sweeping generalisation.

Yes, Marshall has a strong association with the EL34 power stage valve (tube). Yes, some modern, ultra-high gain amps employ the 6L6. Then again, so do some very old designs of modest gain.

People write enormous books and university dissertations on stuff like this. I am going to stop myself before my posting turns into a lecture/rant/whatever. (Delete as applicable.)

Finally, I suspect that somebody at Marshall Amplification will be terribly upset that you do not consider their products to be "modern sounding". ;)
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

cakire82 said:
I have noticed that most of the marshalls come with EL34 where more modern sounding amps come with 6L6. is this a true observation?
Click to expand...

yeah that's pretty much right - -though I tend to think of it like 6L6 being what is and was used in higher wattage Fender amps - which evolved into Mesa Boogie amps, which is what's usually considered modern. But modern high gain amps can use a bunch off different tubes.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

are you trying to say that you want to get a tube amp and need help deciding which direction to go in?
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

Modern and vintage has all to do with individual amp voicing and nothing to do with tube types, seriously.
People put EL34s in their Rectos, but it doesn't significantly change the sound of an amp.
It still sounds like a Recto and hence a modern sound, just a tiny bit different to the 6L6 equipped Recto.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

EL34's have slightly less head room (in a typical Marshall) than the 6L6 does. On Marshalls they want the power section to distort a bit. A 6L6 power section will probably reproduce the high gain distortion, already created in the pre-amp, of a high gain amp more faithfully.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

For me . . . i really do not care all that much what valves come with what amp !

As long as the amp sounds GOOD, i do not care if it is EL34's or 6L6's (or 6V6's, KT 66/88's)

I found, 'in general', i am not a big fan of the EL84's though. But i do like the Marhall 2061X tone. (EL84's)

So, i would say, do not worry about what valves go into the amp of your liking, as long as they do have valves - that's how i see it !
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

I just wanted figure out what types of tubes are out there are what they are mostly used for? It turned out be much deeper than I thought.

super rad stuff said:
are you trying to say that you want to get a tube amp and need help deciding which direction to go in?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

cakire82 said:
I just wanted figure out what types of tubes are out there are what they are mostly used for? It turned out be much deeper than I thought.
Click to expand...


MMmmm, in that case, listen to as many amps as you can, and then go to their site and see what is under the bonet.

After a while, you will get to know that type of amp will use what.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

I am trying to but there are so many out there :)
What I am trying to find out is the characteristics of each tube? Which ones are the most common ones? I love hear what other people think about them.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

I hate to shamelessly plug my site again but I think this article I wrote may be really useful to you:

http://www.pleximods.com/nostubes.html

Once you start getting into the different brands of tubes it blows your mind with the number of tone shaping possibilities out there. I can't say I've noticed that much difference with power tubes but in preamp tubes there seems to be a big difference. By the way if that link doesn't work, try again tommorrow (I've recently changed hosting so the nameservers are still updating throughout the internet).

One thing I'd like to try is build an amp with some tubes you just don't see anymore, the ones that people practically give away on ebay because they only were used for old TVs etc. Then I could have massive stockpiles of NOS tubes for it yet pay next to nothing!
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

shredaholic said:
I
One thing I'd like to try is build an amp with some tubes you just don't see anymore, the ones that people practically give away on ebay because they only were used for old TVs etc. Then I could have massive stockpiles of NOS tubes for it yet pay next to nothing!
Click to expand...

Who would want to play through a TV? lol

Just kidding :P
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

The typical preamp tube is actually two mini tubes in one bottle. Before these dual triode tubes came into common use, they used a single triode tube for each stage. I know of redesigned amps that use these old preamp triodes (generally found in old radios but also there still exists a pretty good stock of NOS and cheap) instead of the common dual triode mini tubes such as the 12AX7. That is another alternative to expensive NOS (and almost extinct) common dual triode mini tubes.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

The ones I've got are really interesting, they use 2 different types in each half (eg pentode in one and triode in the other half). I guess one could get quite creative with possibilities like that.

But seriously Markk, who WOULDNT want to play guitar through a TV? :D
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

cakire82 said:
Wow. This subject is really deep and overwelming :) Thanks for the link by the way. It is very informative.
Click to expand...

This subject has the potential to start a war as there are many tube geeks like me around here. Bottom line is the tubes are one part of the equation. Try a bunch and go with what sounds best to you.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

well here is a side by side comparison between 6L6 and EL34 tube types.

www.myspace.com/thehatterismadd

Now, there is a bit of a compression issue that came up in the recording, but I'll bet you don't hear much of a difference between the two. Maybe a TINY bit.

The preamp and designed voicing will have a LOT more to do with the tone. Power tubes, from what I've learned, are like deciding between putting chocolate or mint sprinkles on your sundae.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

preamp tubes definitely do more toneshaping that you immediately hear, but the overall charactaristic can be heard from the powertubes. the way i've heard the common types is pretty general but goes like this(and these are only the ones i've tried):

6l6:rounder with bigger lows and smoother highs, tighter distortion, higher definition(fenders, mesa boogies,5150s, etc)

el34:raunchy, fatter mids and more grit, even when clean(marshalls)

el84:chimey, lots of mids and treble, not nearly as much bass as either 6l6 or el34s(vox ACs, egnater rebel)

6v6:fat, chunky, kinda like el34s with less top end.(fender champ, egnater rebel)

this is totally a sweeping generalization, but you get the picture.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

Generally speaking, your preamp has 3 or more 12AX7 tubes which generate your overall tone (master volume amps) and then you have your power tubes which are the tubes that actually amplify the signal to high volumes. Depending the wattage of the amp you may have 2, 4, or even 6. The two most common are the EL34 and 6L6 for the power amp. EL34s give that "British tone" and 6L6s give that "American tone".

Like others said though just because an amp has a 6L6 or an EL34 doesn't mean it will sound exactly like its stereotyped to. A 6L6 in a Marshall wont make it sound like a Fender or an EL34 in a Fender won't make it sound like a Marshall. A lot of the tone comes from the circuit but the tubes do matter. Each amp is optimized for the tubes it comes out of the shop with. The tubes are a part of the sound but not the whole. A 6L6 in a Marshall changes the tone a lot but like I just said it wont make it a Fender or Mesa or whatever. But it certainly changes the tone of the amp.

A lot of this probably sounds like jibberish but if you get a good tube amp and take the amp seriously all of this will become second nature and will make a lot of sense especially when you try out different tube types such as 12AX7s, 12AT7s, 12AU7s, 5751s, and etc. in your preamp. I have a JVM that comes stock with 5 12AX7s in the preamp but I only run a 12AX7 for V1 actually.
 
Re: Tubes and the way they Sound?

The power tubes such as 6L6 or EL34 have more to do with the "feel" of the amp, while the preamp tubes have more to do with "voicing" of the amp. Both are essential to the tone. The power tubes work in conjunction with an output tranformer with the speakers on the other side of the tranny. They all three interact together to produce the feel of the amp and also how tight or loose (quick) the amp is. This changes with volume level. Tube amps quicken up a bit after they get loud, but they are never as constipatedly tight as SS. It's also dynamic. SS just feels and sounds sterile by comparison. Once a tube amp is into the sweet spot they just feel and sound right. Changing power tube types does effect the feel.
 
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