whats the difference between tubes(prices, sounds, etc.)? I have a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 and the tubes are 4 ECC83's and 2 EL34's, what are goob tubes to use? Groove tubes, yellow jackets, *those russian ones*? And whats the difference between soft, medium, and hard tubes? or rating quality?...thanks!:13: :dance:
tubes
- Thread starter stuperman
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Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: tubes
Man, thats a really loaded question, because there are so many different flavors of tubes. Kind of like walking into Baskin Robbins and asking which flavor is the best. What's best to me may not be best to you.
In my experience, some of the best production pre-amp tubes (the small ones) are the Groove Tubes "C" series and "M" series. The M's being slightly warmer and squishier, and the C's being tighter, brighter and punchier. The new Tung Sol's also get good reviews. Then there is the whole NOS tube segment, which can get very expensive.
As for power tubes (your EL34's), I am a big fan of the Svetlana's and the EH's. I have not tried the Groove Tubes EL34's, but they may be very good
As for the hardness rating, the higher the rating, the more power you have to push to get the tube to break up, so it stays clean longer. Which one you use depends on what kind of sound you want.
Hope this helps a little.
Man, thats a really loaded question, because there are so many different flavors of tubes. Kind of like walking into Baskin Robbins and asking which flavor is the best. What's best to me may not be best to you.
In my experience, some of the best production pre-amp tubes (the small ones) are the Groove Tubes "C" series and "M" series. The M's being slightly warmer and squishier, and the C's being tighter, brighter and punchier. The new Tung Sol's also get good reviews. Then there is the whole NOS tube segment, which can get very expensive.
As for power tubes (your EL34's), I am a big fan of the Svetlana's and the EH's. I have not tried the Groove Tubes EL34's, but they may be very good
As for the hardness rating, the higher the rating, the more power you have to push to get the tube to break up, so it stays clean longer. Which one you use depends on what kind of sound you want.
Hope this helps a little.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: tubes
I've done a lot of tube swapping in clean amps and highgain amps.
If you want the best bang for buck in your amp, I'd suggest getting a duo of JJ E-34L. They're relatively cheap, last long, and have a great tone. They make a 50W have a wider tone more like a 100W. It may not be a bad idea to replace all the pre tubes, but if you want to save a little, just replace the 1st one. I'd recommend the GT12AX7C for that amp. It's tight focused and sounds good. C's are Shuguang 9th Generation, and it's what Bogner uses in their amps. GT relabels them, but tests them to high specs.
My friend Todd owns one of the best tube businesses. www.revolutionguitar.com
I've done a lot of tube swapping in clean amps and highgain amps.
If you want the best bang for buck in your amp, I'd suggest getting a duo of JJ E-34L. They're relatively cheap, last long, and have a great tone. They make a 50W have a wider tone more like a 100W. It may not be a bad idea to replace all the pre tubes, but if you want to save a little, just replace the 1st one. I'd recommend the GT12AX7C for that amp. It's tight focused and sounds good. C's are Shuguang 9th Generation, and it's what Bogner uses in their amps. GT relabels them, but tests them to high specs.
My friend Todd owns one of the best tube businesses. www.revolutionguitar.com
marvar
New member
Re: tubes
The Groove Tubes EL-34Ls is relabeled JJ EL34L, but a stated above, tested to a high spec and graded for hardness.
The Groove Tubes EL-34Ls is relabeled JJ EL34L, but a stated above, tested to a high spec and graded for hardness.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: tubes
To throw another monkey in the wrenchworks, for high headroom, the EH 6CA7 is a nice output tube, you bias it the same as an EL34, but it is harder, meaning it stay cleaner at higher levels. Kinda what GJ said about the EL-34Ls making your 50W sound more like 100W. I have a quad in my Trace Elliot 100W head and I really like them in there.
As far as preamp tubes, JJ 12AX7s are good, all around preamp tubes with a nice warm sound. EH 12AX7s are higher gain, tighter, and brighter. GTs are good, with alot of choices, but they are more expensive because of their matching process. Does it make them worth it, I"m not gonna go there, that's a personal decision.
To throw another monkey in the wrenchworks, for high headroom, the EH 6CA7 is a nice output tube, you bias it the same as an EL34, but it is harder, meaning it stay cleaner at higher levels. Kinda what GJ said about the EL-34Ls making your 50W sound more like 100W. I have a quad in my Trace Elliot 100W head and I really like them in there.
As far as preamp tubes, JJ 12AX7s are good, all around preamp tubes with a nice warm sound. EH 12AX7s are higher gain, tighter, and brighter. GTs are good, with alot of choices, but they are more expensive because of their matching process. Does it make them worth it, I"m not gonna go there, that's a personal decision.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: tubes
Good advice from all, and I learned something about the GT power tubes being JJ's. I really have not had good luck with JJ preamp tubes, at least in my Marshall. They were way too dark without enough gain. I've not tried the power tubes for that very reason, and it's probably a poor reason.
BTW Devastone, nice to see you posting again. You may not remember, but you helped me install my 2nd set of Duncans ever...the first I attemted to do myself...and screwed up. I learned a lot from that experience, and can at least install my own pups now, so thanks.....and welcome back.
Good advice from all, and I learned something about the GT power tubes being JJ's. I really have not had good luck with JJ preamp tubes, at least in my Marshall. They were way too dark without enough gain. I've not tried the power tubes for that very reason, and it's probably a poor reason.
BTW Devastone, nice to see you posting again. You may not remember, but you helped me install my 2nd set of Duncans ever...the first I attemted to do myself...and screwed up. I learned a lot from that experience, and can at least install my own pups now, so thanks.....and welcome back.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: tubes
As Jeff said this is really a loaded question...tubes you like in your Marshall I might hate in a similar or even same amp, not to mention tubes that work for you in giving you your sound might not be useful to me at all.
A lot of guys in the orld (and some on this very forum) are gonna swear by NOS (New Old Stock) tubes only but those cost a lot of money sometimes and to be honest...I think there are loads of great tubes being made right now!
The best advise I can give you is to read up, buy tubes, try them out then decide for yourself.
I will tell you this...If I had a DSL 50 and were about to buy tubes I would use either the new Tung Sol 12AX7, Electro harmonix 12AX7EH and/or the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the preamp...you don't have to use all one kind you can mix and match to get the sound you are looking for. For power tubes I woudl use the New Sensor made Mullard reissues...they run about $45 or so a p[air and sound great...I have a set of mid 60's NOS Mullards in my Sound City 50+ and I compared the NOS tubes to the new reissues and they were pretty close, to me in that amp and FWIW, the new reissue Mullards are around that $45 a set while the original NOS tubes will runyou around $350 a pair!
As Jeff said this is really a loaded question...tubes you like in your Marshall I might hate in a similar or even same amp, not to mention tubes that work for you in giving you your sound might not be useful to me at all.
A lot of guys in the orld (and some on this very forum) are gonna swear by NOS (New Old Stock) tubes only but those cost a lot of money sometimes and to be honest...I think there are loads of great tubes being made right now!
The best advise I can give you is to read up, buy tubes, try them out then decide for yourself.
I will tell you this...If I had a DSL 50 and were about to buy tubes I would use either the new Tung Sol 12AX7, Electro harmonix 12AX7EH and/or the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the preamp...you don't have to use all one kind you can mix and match to get the sound you are looking for. For power tubes I woudl use the New Sensor made Mullard reissues...they run about $45 or so a p[air and sound great...I have a set of mid 60's NOS Mullards in my Sound City 50+ and I compared the NOS tubes to the new reissues and they were pretty close, to me in that amp and FWIW, the new reissue Mullards are around that $45 a set while the original NOS tubes will runyou around $350 a pair!
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: tubes
Expermentation is the key. The nice thing is that for $10-20 a tube, you can afford to try a few. I'd buy one of each of a few tubes and mess with them in V1 and V2. I'm with Christian on NOS tubes, and I never thought I'd say that, because I used to be a HUGE NOS snob. I still think there are some NOS tubes that are wonders, but probably not worth the cash with the improvements in new tube production.
Have fun trying a bunch out.
Expermentation is the key. The nice thing is that for $10-20 a tube, you can afford to try a few. I'd buy one of each of a few tubes and mess with them in V1 and V2. I'm with Christian on NOS tubes, and I never thought I'd say that, because I used to be a HUGE NOS snob. I still think there are some NOS tubes that are wonders, but probably not worth the cash with the improvements in new tube production.
Have fun trying a bunch out.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: tubes
Hey Jeff, yeah, I remember you, it's been a while. Glad I was of service! Where are you now?
BTW, if you think the JJs are too dark, give the EHs a try. As far as GT tubes go, they buy from lots of different sources and match them, they don't make their own. You are paying for their matching services. Their 12AX7C is a chinese tube ("C" get it), probably the same as a Ruby 12AX7. The M are either Czech or Russian, but I think GT does oversee the production of these. EHs are made by Sovtek, but I find their preamp tubes to be a little brighter and gainier than the Sovteks I have used in the past.
Hey Jeff, yeah, I remember you, it's been a while. Glad I was of service! Where are you now?
BTW, if you think the JJs are too dark, give the EHs a try. As far as GT tubes go, they buy from lots of different sources and match them, they don't make their own. You are paying for their matching services. Their 12AX7C is a chinese tube ("C" get it), probably the same as a Ruby 12AX7. The M are either Czech or Russian, but I think GT does oversee the production of these. EHs are made by Sovtek, but I find their preamp tubes to be a little brighter and gainier than the Sovteks I have used in the past.
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Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: tubes
Charlotte, NC currently.
I've tried a bunch of pre-amp tubes, and I agree with your assessment of the EH's...to bright for my taste. I like GT's matching, and currently like the C's the best. I haven't tried any of the unbranded 9th gen tubes, but maybe I should. The M's were also a little dark for my taste in my Marshall, but better than the JJ's.
I need to branch out in power tubes, because the Svets are all I've used, outside a brief stint with the EH EL34's. I'm interested in the EH 6CA7's quite a bit. I may try those next time a tube change is due in the Marshall.
Cheers, and thanks again for the help so long ago!
Charlotte, NC currently.
I've tried a bunch of pre-amp tubes, and I agree with your assessment of the EH's...to bright for my taste. I like GT's matching, and currently like the C's the best. I haven't tried any of the unbranded 9th gen tubes, but maybe I should. The M's were also a little dark for my taste in my Marshall, but better than the JJ's.
I need to branch out in power tubes, because the Svets are all I've used, outside a brief stint with the EH EL34's. I'm interested in the EH 6CA7's quite a bit. I may try those next time a tube change is due in the Marshall.
Cheers, and thanks again for the help so long ago!
Re: tubes
hmm...alright...thanks for the help guys. I dont think this is an opinion question, but why are tubes expensive? And what's the difference between power/pre-amp tubes? I don't know anything about tubes, except that they're in amps. I was talking with my dad, and i dont think he knows what he was talking about, but he said i could even use a GE tube or something like that in an amp.
hmm...alright...thanks for the help guys. I dont think this is an opinion question, but why are tubes expensive? And what's the difference between power/pre-amp tubes? I don't know anything about tubes, except that they're in amps. I was talking with my dad, and i dont think he knows what he was talking about, but he said i could even use a GE tube or something like that in an amp.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: tubes
What is expensive? I bought a quartet of EH 6CA7s from NBSLord Valve for around $50 + $6 or so shipping. JJ preamp tubes are $7 - $10, EH preamp tubes are around $9. So, you can do a full retube on your DSL50 for around $55 or so, less than a decent pedal. The preamp tubes will last for years, the power tubes should last at least a year or more depending on how much and how loud you play.
Preamp tubes are the small ones, they take the signal from the guitar and amplify and shape the tone, as well as drive the EQ circuits. The 2 big ones are the power tubes, that's what they do, they take the signal from the preamp and push it hard enough to drive the speakers (through the output transformer). This is an oversimplification but you get the picture. Oh yeah, when people talk about matching, they are talking about matched pairs or quads of power tubes, no need for matching preamp tubes.
GE (General Electric) is a brand, and they haven't made tubes in lots of years. You might be able to find some NOS (new old stock) GE 6CA7s that would work in your amp, but they will cost you quite a bit. I'd definitely suggest buying new tubes from JJ, EH, Svetlana, Winged C, Sovtek, etc... FWIW, GT does not make their own tubes, they buy them in bulk from different manufacturers and grade and match them. They are expensive, when they first started they were providing a service that no one else was by matching the tubes and giving them hardness ratings for guitar amps. Now, you can get matched sets of power tubes from all of these companies so, the extra cost for GT is debatable, I'm not going there... If you are worried about the cost of retubing, I would recommend another brand that won't cost you as much.
stuperman said:
What is expensive? I bought a quartet of EH 6CA7s from NBSLord Valve for around $50 + $6 or so shipping. JJ preamp tubes are $7 - $10, EH preamp tubes are around $9. So, you can do a full retube on your DSL50 for around $55 or so, less than a decent pedal. The preamp tubes will last for years, the power tubes should last at least a year or more depending on how much and how loud you play.
stuperman said:
Preamp tubes are the small ones, they take the signal from the guitar and amplify and shape the tone, as well as drive the EQ circuits. The 2 big ones are the power tubes, that's what they do, they take the signal from the preamp and push it hard enough to drive the speakers (through the output transformer). This is an oversimplification but you get the picture. Oh yeah, when people talk about matching, they are talking about matched pairs or quads of power tubes, no need for matching preamp tubes.
stuperman said:
GE (General Electric) is a brand, and they haven't made tubes in lots of years. You might be able to find some NOS (new old stock) GE 6CA7s that would work in your amp, but they will cost you quite a bit. I'd definitely suggest buying new tubes from JJ, EH, Svetlana, Winged C, Sovtek, etc... FWIW, GT does not make their own tubes, they buy them in bulk from different manufacturers and grade and match them. They are expensive, when they first started they were providing a service that no one else was by matching the tubes and giving them hardness ratings for guitar amps. Now, you can get matched sets of power tubes from all of these companies so, the extra cost for GT is debatable, I'm not going there... If you are worried about the cost of retubing, I would recommend another brand that won't cost you as much.
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