I am so not a wiring guy so I was wondering if I could get some help with this. I am having two humbuckers installed in my guitar. And I'm trying to plan it out and buy the parts needed so that I can just drop it off at my luthier and let them go at it. I want to basically have the ability to mix and match any coil in any combination. Like say the top bridge coil and the bottom neck coil, or even bottom bridge coil and top neck coil, or run both neck coils with only the top bridge coil... ect ect. BUT I want them in series so the sound gets progressively fatter and wider. I don't want to have to remember which position is which on some 10 slot super switch. I'd like to just have 4 simple mini toggles... one for each coil. I know that alone is possible... but is also having them in series? Series is basically Postive to Negative in a chain right? Could I have 4 switches where the top neck coil and bottom bridge coils were in series just by shutting the other two coils down?
Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
- Thread starter Infi-del
- Start date
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Essentially this is like a 4 pickup variant on the Brian May red special wiring (without OOP). Brian has 3 switches for the 3 pickups.....any of which can be turned on and all connected in series.
Your problem will come with them all being hum cancelling (which I think both of the same coil won't), but I think they should all be in-phase.
Essentially this is like a 4 pickup variant on the Brian May red special wiring (without OOP). Brian has 3 switches for the 3 pickups.....any of which can be turned on and all connected in series.
Your problem will come with them all being hum cancelling (which I think both of the same coil won't), but I think they should all be in-phase.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
This is correct. You will lose hum-cancellation if you're running two coils of the same polarity or (of course) if you're running just one coil. In order to stay in phase you just need to make sure that you wire the two pickups together so the circuit (with all four coils on) goes north to south to north to south.
I took the liberty of drawing up a diagram for you of how it would work. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if I misunderstood your needs.
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This is correct. You will lose hum-cancellation if you're running two coils of the same polarity or (of course) if you're running just one coil. In order to stay in phase you just need to make sure that you wire the two pickups together so the circuit (with all four coils on) goes north to south to north to south.
I took the liberty of drawing up a diagram for you of how it would work. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if I misunderstood your needs.
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Brandenburg
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
interesting.. added this to my collection of reference material
This is correct. You will lose hum-cancellation if you're running two coils of the same polarity or (of course) if you're running just one coil. In order to stay in phase you just need to make sure that you wire the two pickups together so the circuit (with all four coils on) goes north to south to north to south.
I took the liberty of drawing up a diagram for you of how it would work. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if I misunderstood your needs.
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interesting.. added this to my collection of reference material
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
I'm honored!
I thought it was kind of an interesting concept too... that's why I sat down and mapped it out after reading this thread. Had to kinda think differently in order to keep the "hot" going through the whole thing while any given switch was off AND keep it series.
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I'm honored!
I thought it was kind of an interesting concept too... that's why I sat down and mapped it out after reading this thread. Had to kinda think differently in order to keep the "hot" going through the whole thing while any given switch was off AND keep it series.
[emoji450] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
I think you need one more switch to put the pickups in series. But I will say, series is not as useful as you think.
I think you need one more switch to put the pickups in series. But I will say, series is not as useful as you think.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
If you trace the hot through all the switches (switched on), you'll see that the neck HB's north start (black) is connected to the bridge HB's south start (green), which would be series operation. Unless I made a glorious blunder somewhere (admittedly, not impossible), you wouldn't be able to get parallel anywhere in this diagram. Please, though, double-check my work for me (I respect your expertise) and if I've made an error I'll fix it right up.
Also, on a personal level I agree with you about the "all series" sound. I've installed master series/parallel switches on a couple of my guitars and find that two humbuckers in series is just too muddy for my tastes. I do, however, like it if I have both humbuckers split, creating a virtual bucker.
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If you trace the hot through all the switches (switched on), you'll see that the neck HB's north start (black) is connected to the bridge HB's south start (green), which would be series operation. Unless I made a glorious blunder somewhere (admittedly, not impossible
), you wouldn't be able to get parallel anywhere in this diagram. Please, though, double-check my work for me (I respect your expertise) and if I've made an error I'll fix it right up.Also, on a personal level I agree with you about the "all series" sound. I've installed master series/parallel switches on a couple of my guitars and find that two humbuckers in series is just too muddy for my tastes. I do, however, like it if I have both humbuckers split, creating a virtual bucker.
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Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
This is the BM wiring. His has pickups all of the same polarity, so you would have to translate orientation. But the switch wiring is much more simple.
As to series not being useful......I think time has quite simply proven this to be utter rubbish. Everyone has series wired humbuckers as their main method of attaching the 2 coils.....since 1957.
This is the BM wiring. His has pickups all of the same polarity, so you would have to translate orientation. But the switch wiring is much more simple.
As to series not being useful......I think time has quite simply proven this to be utter rubbish. Everyone has series wired humbuckers as their main method of attaching the 2 coils.....since 1957.
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Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Amazing... do you have a program that generates these? Thank you so much. Being able to visualize it makes it so much easier. Again... really... thank you!
This is correct. You will lose hum-cancellation if you're running two coils of the same polarity or (of course) if you're running just one coil. In order to stay in phase you just need to make sure that you wire the two pickups together so the circuit (with all four coils on) goes north to south to north to south.
I took the liberty of drawing up a diagram for you of how it would work. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if I misunderstood your needs.
[emoji450] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
Amazing... do you have a program that generates these? Thank you so much. Being able to visualize it makes it so much easier. Again... really... thank you!
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
I plan to do a good deal of shielding... BUT... I don't gig and my music room where I do any recording is pretty isolated. I don't ever really get a lot of buzzing or interference. But I'm really intrigued by the idea of the humbucker single variations with this setup.
I plan to do a good deal of shielding... BUT... I don't gig and my music room where I do any recording is pretty isolated. I don't ever really get a lot of buzzing or interference. But I'm really intrigued by the idea of the humbucker single variations with this setup.
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Do you think adding 1Meg pots would help allow more highs through? Keep it from getting TOO muddy. I do realize that series will translate into a darker fatter sound. Also... this is going in a Stratocaster... they can be bright and spanky anyway.
Do you think adding 1Meg pots would help allow more highs through? Keep it from getting TOO muddy. I do realize that series will translate into a darker fatter sound. Also... this is going in a Stratocaster... they can be bright and spanky anyway.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
LOL... wow, yes that's much more straightforward!
Infi-del, if you like I'll re-draw the diagram to be a closer match to the one that AlexR provided. He's right, it's less confusing but it needs to be re-worked a bit to fit with two humbuckers instead of 3 single coils.
I know I didn't say this and I'm 99.9% sure that Beaubrummels wasn't saying it either. Everyone knows that series humbuckers are the standard and almost everybody uses them that way. There are most certainly less people who use humbuckers more often in parallel because most people want the thicker, meatier sound along with the hum-canceling.
Instead, we were referring to having two humbuckers (not coils) hooked together in series, as opposed to in parallel (which has also been the main method since 1957). I'm all for him giving it a try, and it's kind of a cool idea IMO... whether or not he likes it will be a matter of taste. Always best to try it out and see for oneself.
Glad you like it, but like I said above, I would be happy to re-draw it simpler (like AlexR's suggstion) if you like. LOL... sometimes I over-think stuff!
As for the program, yes... it's a program that my buddy Brandenburg turned me onto several months ago. It takes some messing around to get the components set up the way you want them, but once it's going it's fantastic for drawing diagrams.
1Meg pots might help, but if you already have 500k's I'd try those out first. To be honest, I feel like the muddiness just comes from all the extra resistance (and volume) of two humbuckers in series. To my ears it's more like a recording where the input volume is set too high creating distortion. It's not for me, but then too I'm more of a classic rock guy and I don't ever use high-gain. If you're into metal and high-gain sounds then you may very well like what it gives you.
LOL... wow, yes that's much more straightforward!
Infi-del, if you like I'll re-draw the diagram to be a closer match to the one that AlexR provided. He's right, it's less confusing but it needs to be re-worked a bit to fit with two humbuckers instead of 3 single coils.
I know I didn't say this and I'm 99.9% sure that Beaubrummels wasn't saying it either. Everyone knows that series humbuckers are the standard and almost everybody uses them that way. There are most certainly less people who use humbuckers more often in parallel because most people want the thicker, meatier sound along with the hum-canceling.
Instead, we were referring to having two humbuckers (not coils) hooked together in series, as opposed to in parallel (which has also been the main method since 1957). I'm all for him giving it a try, and it's kind of a cool idea IMO... whether or not he likes it will be a matter of taste. Always best to try it out and see for oneself.
Glad you like it, but like I said above, I would be happy to re-draw it simpler (like AlexR's suggstion) if you like. LOL... sometimes I over-think stuff!
As for the program, yes... it's a program that my buddy Brandenburg turned me onto several months ago. It takes some messing around to get the components set up the way you want them, but once it's going it's fantastic for drawing diagrams.
1Meg pots might help, but if you already have 500k's I'd try those out first. To be honest, I feel like the muddiness just comes from all the extra resistance (and volume) of two humbuckers in series. To my ears it's more like a recording where the input volume is set too high creating distortion. It's not for me, but then too I'm more of a classic rock guy and I don't ever use high-gain. If you're into metal and high-gain sounds then you may very well like what it gives you.
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
If I use 4 On/Off/On switches could I achieve In Phase on one side and Out Of Phase on the other? That could toss some squaky high end into some of the combos. Like for example the On/Off/On switch could be IP/Off/OOP. That would be sort of in the Brian May style.
If it matters I plan to use Gibson Burstbuckers.
If I use 4 On/Off/On switches could I achieve In Phase on one side and Out Of Phase on the other? That could toss some squaky high end into some of the combos. Like for example the On/Off/On switch could be IP/Off/OOP. That would be sort of in the Brian May style.
If it matters I plan to use Gibson Burstbuckers.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Hmmmm... Maybe... Let me play with that idea a little bit...
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Hmmmm... Maybe... Let me play with that idea a little bit...
[emoji450] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Here ya go... pretty simple change actually. One thing to mention is that you asked about on/off/on DPDTs, but they won't work. Instead you need on/ON/on DPDTs. Other than that, it should function quite nicely.
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Here ya go... pretty simple change actually. One thing to mention is that you asked about on/off/on DPDTs, but they won't work. Instead you need on/ON/on DPDTs. Other than that, it should function quite nicely.
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Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Awesome! I'm so doing this. Hopefully tossing an out of phase coil in there will cut through some of the mud if it goes that direction. I have to imagine this will produce some interesting sounds. So the middle ON position will effectively kill the coil and remove it? Is it grounding it out or something?
Thank you again.
Here ya go... pretty simple change actually. One thing to mention is that you asked about on/off/on DPDTs, but they won't work. Instead you need on/ON/on DPDTs. Other than that, it should function quite nicely.
[emoji450] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]
Awesome! I'm so doing this. Hopefully tossing an out of phase coil in there will cut through some of the mud if it goes that direction. I have to imagine this will produce some interesting sounds. So the middle ON position will effectively kill the coil and remove it? Is it grounding it out or something?
Thank you again.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Glad you are like it! Yes, the middle position makes the coil silent, and it does it by routing the + directly to the -. At the same time the wires connecting the pickup to the switch are disconnected. It's actually standard phase reverse wiring which is normally done on a 2-way DPDT... just done on a 3-way on/on/on instead.
Glad you are like it! Yes, the middle position makes the coil silent, and it does it by routing the + directly to the -. At the same time the wires connecting the pickup to the switch are disconnected. It's actually standard phase reverse wiring which is normally done on a 2-way DPDT... just done on a 3-way on/on/on instead.
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Yes, Beau was referring to two full hummers in series.......but this wiring is quite a bit more than simply two full pickups together and I guess thats what I was pointing out.
The BM wiring is cool due to the flexibility of the coil selection options....all in series that it offers. And with an extra coil in there you have a bit more flexibility, but perhaps less tonal difference due to the lack of a true middle pickup.
And the OOP but in series is what gives all the other cool tones BM gets. Of all the humbucker coil cut options this I can see as being the most useful.
Yes, Beau was referring to two full hummers in series.......but this wiring is quite a bit more than simply two full pickups together and I guess thats what I was pointing out.
The BM wiring is cool due to the flexibility of the coil selection options....all in series that it offers. And with an extra coil in there you have a bit more flexibility, but perhaps less tonal difference due to the lack of a true middle pickup.
And the OOP but in series is what gives all the other cool tones BM gets. Of all the humbucker coil cut options this I can see as being the most useful.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
I wasn't referring to your drawing. I was referring to the OP's description.
If you trace the hot through all the switches (switched on), you'll see that the neck HB's north start (black) is connected to the bridge HB's south start (green), which would be series operation. Unless I made a glorious blunder somewhere (admittedly, not impossible
Also, on a personal level I agree with you about the "all series" sound. I've installed master series/parallel switches on a couple of my guitars and find that two humbuckers in series is just too muddy for my tastes. I do, however, like it if I have both humbuckers split, creating a virtual bucker.
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I wasn't referring to your drawing. I was referring to the OP's description.
BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Two Humbuckers with 4 switches?
Oops... Sorry! My bad!
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Oops... Sorry! My bad!
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