Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

[paytojt]

1. Do the preamp tubes provide distortion and the power tubes volume and the rectfier(does what)? I'm trying to figure out what the preamp, power and rectifier tubes do on my Mesa.

2. Is there a way to change the tubes or do something else to make my dual rec tremoverb sound more like the modern dual recs? I know I could buy one (thinking about the Roadster) but if I can get close for now, it'd be cool. Thanks.

 

[34029324079]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

what amp do you have - the combo with the open back, or the head, and what cab and what tubes? What settings are you using, and what type of sound are you going for? Modern dual recs are very versatile. of course it is hard to make one amp sound like another since they are voiced differently, but these are pretty similar amps...All of these factors are stakeholders in the tone game...with more info other members will be able to help you out some too.

 

[paytojt]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

Well it's an old tremoverb back when they first came out. Sovtek preamp tubes, not sure about power tubes except that they are 6l6's and have the Mesa logo on them. It is a tremoverb combo, with half the back covered. Looking for the heavy sound used a lot today (Dream Theater, Alter Bridge comes to mind). I'm big into metal and love a great palm mute chunk, but also the blues and jazz (which is why I like the Roadster- does all of it very well!)

 

[34029324079]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

I have not heard the roadster yet, but it looks pretty sweet. I definitely can't afford it at $2500 for the 2x12 combo...the option I am gassing on is the mesa 2x12 cab with V30s and the new school 3 channel Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier ...I also like the Mark IVs...

here is my 2cents:

Having a closed back cab makes a big difference - have you tried plugging your amp into a 4x12 cab? The type of cab you plug the amplifier into makes a big difference in terms of heavy chug.

Im interested in what the others will say - good luck!

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

I had the exact same amp.......Try plugging into a 4X12 cab & see if that helps.

 

[paytojt]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

That would give me the chunk, but the distortion on the tremoverb sounds sweeter (for lack of a better word) than the modern ones I've played recently. The tremoverb sounds wonderful, just doesn't have a good buzzsaw quality I'm looking for. I don't think tubes would help, but maybe you guys have experience???

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

The T-verb has plenty of gain.....maybe try an EQ pedal to get more of that buzzsaw type distortion.

 

[paytojt]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

Thanks! EQ pedal definitely costs less. Guess I'll try that and repost if it doesn't work.

 

[muttonchopsrule]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

ditch the mesa-brended power tubes and get yourself a set of JJ's or something of equal quality.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

The rectifier gives you a spongier, sag to your tone - more like EVH or and older Marshall vs something newer and tighter. It sweetens the feel and softens the tone as far as sound effect.

Closed cabs will make it more modern from the start. Mesa amps tend to get a nastier Mid with big bottle 6L6's (russians, me thinks), and sweeter, balanced tone with extended highs and lows with GE reissue 6L6s.

My advice? LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! T-verbs we're among the sweetest Mesas ever made, why on God's earth do you want to change the tone to one of their less lively designs?

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

The rectifier gives you a spongier, sag to your tone - more like EVH or and older Marshall vs something newer and tighter. It sweetens the feel and softens the tone as far as sound effect.

Closed cabs will make it more modern from the start. Mesa amps tend to get a nastier Mid with big bottle 6L6's (russians, me thinks), and sweeter, balanced tone with extended highs and lows with GE reissue 6L6s.

My advice? LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! T-verbs we're among the sweetest Mesas ever made, why on God's earth do you want to change the tone to one of their less lively designs?

+10,000!!!!

The Recto 412 is huge part of the Rectifier sound. I would really think that if you want more buzz--a pedal would be the way to go.

Now someone suggested new tubes, and JJs are nice, but honestly, I don't think that wholesale tube swapping is indicated, UNLESS--the tubes in your amp are old and worn out. In my Mesa Mark Series combos, I've learned that the SED/Winged C 6L6s are the way to go.

I found that using all JJ preamp tubes made my amps very dark sounding. With a little experimenting, I found using a combination of JJ, EH and Groove Tube's "Mullard Clone" to be very effective. If you get a good, low-noise and non-microphonic tube, that GT12AX7-M sounds great in V1 and V3 of my Mesa amps. Changes like these wil get your amp sounding its best, but it still may not be the amp to fulfill your fantasies. I think the T-verb is too good to give up on; so if you like the basic tones from the amp--try some pedals. The Trem-o-verb is a Rectifier, and one of Mesa's best amps ever, IMHO.

You should also give the Mesa Customer Service Line a call, and they might be able to help you get closer to the sound you're looking for.

Bill

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

Buy a good OD pedal. If the tubes are old originals, it's definitely time to change them. www.revolutionguitar.com

I've had a tremoverb 2-12 combo before, and remember that the gain seemed 'almost there' but was a little gritty sounding. Any decent quality OD pedal will tighten up the gain, making it chunk better and allow you to have singing sustain for solos. Then, you'll have 4 channels....clean, clean + OD, heavy crunch, heavy crunch + OD

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

My advice? LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! T-verbs we're among the sweetest Mesas ever made, why on God's earth do you want to change the tone to one of their less lively designs?

Because he's unhappy with it.

Also, a rectifier changes ac to dc.

+1 to the OD pedal idea.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

JB the question wasn't WHY DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT? The question was WHY DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT TO ONE OF MESAS LESS LIVELY DESIGNS?

Big difference. I understand wanting something else, but you don't take a Filet Mignon, douse it in Ketchup and throw it in the microwave - I mean you CAN, it's a free country, but the SPIRIT is NOT freedom to move backwards.

Bill is right, you can get some great Pre swaps. I have liked JJ's and 12x7C's in my Mesas as they give you some nice spank and clarity, which in the highs can make you perceive more gain, and more "buzz".

Frankly, a good 4x12 closed back, OR one of the Road King mixed C90 / V30 open closed designs might be cool. Mesa C90 speakers have a brown tone, and the V30s have a nasty mid tone - good mix. Also consider a HOT PLATE, and Cranking that amp, you might get some nice tones.

 

[paytojt]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

I already use a boss ds1 to add some more gain. It does tighten it up, but doesn't sound quite right. I know the tremoverb is awesome, it just isn't getting distortion I'm into. Almost (90%), but not quite. I bought the tremoverb online, so I didn't get to play it. I assumed that because it said dual rectifier, that it would sound the same. Oops! I wouldn't consider the other rectifiers inferior as some have suggested, just different. That being said, any ideas of switching from the "red" channel with the boss on to the "orange" channel with the boss off? I can't really step on two pedals at once! I'm used to a line 6 AX212 where i didn't have pedals in case that question sounds stupid!!! Also any pedal suggestions that might be better than the ds 1? I'll just accept that I can't change the tverb's dist to that of a more modern rec. Who knows maybe it'll grow on me. I absolutely love the clean channel, but the vintage and blues don't do it for me yet. I really do appreciate everybody's input. Keep it coming!

 

[34029324079]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

^ just a small helpful pointer - you would either need to tape your effects pedal close to the red/orange pedal, wire them simultaneously together, or get the rack system for effects maybe? I was wondering this too... There was a recent thread on the Mark IV https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?p=1008963#post1008963

but the rack in that thread did not wire up any distortion pedals or anything.


The new 3 channel dual rectifier has an awesome effects loop that includes an assignable channel, meaning if you step on the fifth button on the pedal included with the amp, it will switch to one of the 3 channels that you assign it to, and will play whatever effects you have wired to that 5th channel...pretty awesome feature included imo ...you could go from heavy shredder setting to clean wet (wet = with effects)

 

[some_dude]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

That would give me the chunk, but the distortion on the tremoverb sounds sweeter (for lack of a better word) than the modern ones I've played recently. The tremoverb sounds wonderful, just doesn't have a good buzzsaw quality I'm looking for. I don't think tubes would help, but maybe you guys have experience???

If you want the buzzsaw type sound try a set of EHX 12AX7s in it. They're the most agressive tube I've tried and they're what new Rectos ship with.

As for the really aggressive sound you can get out of channel 3 on a modern Recto.....you'll never get it out of a 2 channel due to a difference in presence pot.

 

[paytojt]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

Ok last question. When putting in preamp tubes do I need to buy 6 (I believe I have 6) of the same kind or just a few?

 

[some_dude]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

Ok last question. When putting in preamp tubes do I need to buy 6 (I believe I have 6) of the same kind or just a few?

You can mix and match them any way that you want. In fact, you can really tailor your sound that way.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Two questions for those more knowledgeable about dual recs

I can tell you the that the EHX are agressive, but Mesa sells some very nice Chinese and Russian pre's that I have come to like very much.

Interestingly, you can make the T-Verb more aggressive, and then by a 12At7 and make it into a blues amp when you feel like it.