Ugh, Floating Trem

alex1fly

alex1fly

Well-known member
I know there have been some discussions lately about this, but I can't find the threads so here it goes again. Sorry for the grumpy tone.

One of my guitars has a floating tremolo, Floyd 1000. I've had it for 18 months, played it extensively, and I want to enjoy the soft feel of the bar, the extra bit of travel, the shimmery warble. But it feels weird and I'm just not convinced that the fuss is worth it. There's something different about it compared to a decked Strat tremolo (which I totally dig). Here are the pros and cons of the floating tremolo.
Pros: can pretend to be Jeff Beck/Satch/Vai, which I never do. Can do extra large bends, which doesn't compel me.
Cons: can never do alternate or drop tunings. Fussy to tune. Bends screw up any drone notes. Picking hard creates a warble and uneven sound.

What can I do? Should I block the thing? Can I replace the bridge with a fixed bridge? Would more springs make it feel more "solid", and is that a good thing? What devices are "tried and true" for stabilizing/blocking the bridge, and which ones are bunk?

Or is it worthwhile, long-term, to leave it as is and give myself the chance to develop a style on it? I love so much about this instrument and selling it is not in the playbook.

The guitar is basically this one: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SECU24FRFR--prs-se-custom-24-floyd-fire-red-burst
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SECU24FRFR--prs-se-custom-24-floyd-fire-red-burst
 
The blocked trem thing is fine. I did that for a long while when first getting a floyded guitar. Just cut a bit of wood and stick it in place with a drop of superglue in the trem cavity and it'll come right out if you don't like it later. The sound changes when it's blocked than when it's floating too. Not necessarily better or worse, but it's definitely different - a bit bassier for sure.

My trem guitars are all set up free floating with .10-52s or .11s in standard tuning and five springs on the claw, which I find significantly reduces weird warbly sounds from heavy picking. The trem moves smoothly and it's much easier to control than a regular floyd set up (which can be a little floppy when trying to do subtle) . . . it's great for gentle wobble on chords or double stops, and can still do dive bombs if you need that.
 
Option one: accept that a Floyd rose style tremolo is not for you. Sell the guitar and get something you’re more happy with.

Option two: install a tremol-no or other tremolo-blocking gadget that can fully block your tremolo, or set it for dive only. Dive only will allow you to do alternate tunings without going out of tune because it will keep the bridge from sinking into the cavity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
alex1fly said:
I know there have been some discussions lately about this, but I can't find the threads so here it goes again. Sorry for the grumpy tone.

One of my guitars has a floating tremolo, Floyd 1000. I've had it for 18 months, played it extensively, and I want to enjoy the soft feel of the bar, the extra bit of travel, the shimmery warble. But it feels weird and I'm just not convinced that the fuss is worth it. There's something different about it compared to a decked Strat tremolo (which I totally dig). Here are the pros and cons of the floating tremolo.
Pros: can pretend to be Jeff Beck/Satch/Vai, which I never do. Can do extra large bends, which doesn't compel me.
Cons: can never do alternate or drop tunings. Fussy to tune. Bends screw up any drone notes. Picking hard creates a warble and uneven sound.

What can I do? Should I block the thing? Can I replace the bridge with a fixed bridge? Would more springs make it feel more "solid", and is that a good thing? What devices are "tried and true" for stabilizing/blocking the bridge, and which ones are bunk?

Or is it worthwhile, long-term, to leave it as is and give myself the chance to develop a style on it? I love so much about this instrument and selling it is not in the playbook.

The guitar is basically this one: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SECU24FRFR--prs-se-custom-24-floyd-fire-red-burst
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SECU24FRFR--prs-se-custom-24-floyd-fire-red-burst
Click to expand...

I am a 38 year floating Kahler cam tremolo user. Last year I got a Fender LE HM Strat with a Floyd - my first Floyd. The Floyd is so much freer floating, it was a struggle just fine tuning it. I truly wanted this HM Strat and it does a much better "Cricket" than my Kahlers, so I was determined to keep it and work at making peace with the Floyd.

I am still not 100% with the Floyd, but I am much better than last year. I find the Floyd is requiring a much lighter touch while playing than I am used to with my Kahlers or a Fender trem.

My goal with the Floyd does not include alternate tunings or blocking it. More springs will make a Floyd feel more solid, but I already have that with my Kahlers. Again, I am focusing on adapting to the Floyd.

Best of luck pursuing your goal(s) for your Floyd.
 
It's also worth mentioning that in certain cases adding more springs can be counterproductive (due to Hooke's law I think, but don't quote me on that :) and may give rise to tuning problems. That is because adding more springs may make the bridge feel stiffer and keep the bridge floating, but the springs themselves will be less stretched, thus storing less energy and after diving it will not return to zero, but rather a tad bit flat. A slap on the bar to make it flutter returns everything to zero in that case, but not a desirable situation. I would go for stronger springs ( I've had success with the red ones from FR, but FU-Tones and many other make similar products). Those will feel stiffer too but will be considerably more stretched when set up, thus storing more energy to pull the bridge back to zero.

The gadget I reviewed in the thread I linked in my previous post aids the springs in doing their work: it pushes and pulls on the block at the same time thus maintaining the zero position. As an added bonus, strings wont go immediately flat when you bend one and supposedly a drop tuning on the fly is possible too. I'd try something similar, because it helps negate some of the drawbacks of the Floyd while letting it be a Floyd. You only sacrifice the flutters. I think if you have it is worth learning to use it. Now that you have why prevent it from doing what it was designed to do? :)
 
If your trem isn't going back to zero point, the knife edges are likely worn. I have several floyd guitars with 5 springs and no issue at all getting back to tune.
 
GuitarStv said:
If your trem isn't going back to zero point, the knife edges are likely worn. I have several floyd guitars with 5 springs and no issue at all getting back to tune.
Click to expand...

Yep, likely scenario, but not the only only reson for returning flat. I have one with 5 springs too, but the length of the cavity is a factor here I think. Either way, it is my experience that in some cases adding extra springs doesn't solve the issue but using stronber/shorter ones does. I just did one recently, where 4 springs didn't work well, but 3 stronger ones did.
 
nexion218 said:
Yep, likely scenario, but not the only only reson for returning flat. I have one with 5 springs too, but the length of the cavity is a factor here I think. Either way, it is my experience that in some cases adding extra springs doesn't solve the issue but using stronber/shorter ones does. I just did one recently, where 4 springs didn't work well, but 3 stronger ones did.
Click to expand...

Weird. I suppose that's possible.

FWIW - I've found that using a mix of different lengths and/or tensions of springs seems to give me better stability while floating for some reason, so usually do that when setting up . . . but I'm not 100% sure if it's not all in my head. :P
 
GuitarStv said:
Weird. I suppose that's possible.

FWIW - I've found that using a mix of different lengths and/or tensions of springs seems to give me better stability while floating for some reason, so usually do that when setting up . . . but I'm not 100% sure if it's not all in my head. :P
Click to expand...

Nope, its not! Or at least we have it both in our heads then. :D I have one with 2 springs, but in that one I can drive the claw back far enough to create enough tension with only two springs. That's why I think that somehow the cavity, or more precisely the block-claw distance somehow plays a role.
 
JamesPaul dive-bombed onto a good point, that it takes a bit of time to adapt to the overall lighter touch required with an OFR/Edge type bridge.
 
I went through this debate myself recently. My decision was to set the floyd to down only, and I chose to use a floyd rose trem stop. This is a simple bracket in the rear cavity with a bolt pushing against the block. Nice, simple and reversible (save for two screw holes for the bracket).

For me, the loss of ability to pull up on the floyd, and the loss of the feel of a floating trem was lesser than gaining simpler tuning, not worrying about being heavy handed and string bends behaving more like on a fixed bridge. Also, down only was good enough for Eddie!

In the band, most of the playing is inevitably rhythm, and whilst I of course do leads, having a floating floyd is less important against the benefits. That said I fully appreciate if I work on things and adopt new habits I can of course learn to work with a floating floyd - in which case I'll remove the bolt/adjust springs and off I go. I am happy with how things currently are though. Floating does allow some nice stuff so I won't rule it out in future.

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk
 
If anyone can't handle a Floyd maybe he/ she shouldn't use it at all. The real advantage of a floating trem is the ability to pull the bar up and do all tricks only possible with it. Otherwise just use a regular Strat tremolo.

I have a number of guitars with original Floyd and its derivatives and never have any tuning issue and so on.
 
Little Pigbacon said:
If you like the stuff you can do with it, keep it that way. Do you really want all your guitars set up to do all the same things? What would be the point of having multiples? I like a free-floating trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a decked trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a wraparound LP Special bridge, but not on all my guitars. Etc, etc.
Click to expand...

This right here. I can say with confidence that all my guitars are quite different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks everyone! Going to follow up on a few comments here.

JamesPaul said:
I am a 38 year floating Kahler cam tremolo user. Last year I got a Fender LE HM Strat with a Floyd - my first Floyd. The Floyd is so much freer floating, it was a struggle just fine tuning it. I truly wanted this HM Strat and it does a much better "Cricket" than my Kahlers, so I was determined to keep it and work at making peace with the Floyd.

I am still not 100% with the Floyd, but I am much better than last year. I find the Floyd is requiring a much lighter touch while playing than I am used to with my Kahlers or a Fender trem.

My goal with the Floyd does not include alternate tunings or blocking it. More springs will make a Floyd feel more solid, but I already have that with my Kahlers. Again, I am focusing on adapting to the Floyd.

Best of luck pursuing your goal(s) for your Floyd.
Click to expand...

You mention a lighter touch on the Floyd. Do you mean on the tremolo bar, or on the guitar itself? I'm finding both to be the case - the trem is more sensitive, sure, but also the guitar begs for a light touch even on .10s. I'm not used to playing a guitar that doesn't like getting a little thwacked. Could the bridge be absorbing the string vibration, moreso than a decked Strat bridge would? No need to answer, just pondering.

Little Pigbacon said:
If you like the stuff you can do with it, keep it that way. Do you really want all your guitars set up to do all the same things? What would be the point of having multiples? I like a free-floating trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a decked trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a wraparound LP Special bridge, but not on all my guitars. Etc, etc.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, I'm not thrilled with the Dimebag squeals and cricket tricks, and I've never had a desire to do the Jeff Beck thing. I do get your sentiment though - there's no point in having many guitars that all do the same thing, so maybe I'll grow into it. What kinds of stuff do you do with your floating trems?

Obsessive Compulsive said:
If anyone can't handle a Floyd maybe he/ she shouldn't use it at all. The real advantage of a floating trem is the ability to pull the bar up and do all tricks only possible with it. Otherwise just use a regular Strat tremolo.

I have a number of guitars with original Floyd and its derivatives and never have any tuning issue and so on.
Click to expand...

Curious about the tricks. The grumpy me says "look, even when masters of the guitar do floating trem tricks, it doesn't sound that great. It sounds different, but who cares?" But then the optimistic me says "it opens doors for creativity, give it a shot!"

nexion218 said:
It's also worth mentioning that in certain cases adding more springs can be counterproductive (due to Hooke's law I think, but don't quote me on that :) and may give rise to tuning problems. That is because adding more springs may make the bridge feel stiffer and keep the bridge floating, but the springs themselves will be less stretched, thus storing less energy and after diving it will not return to zero, but rather a tad bit flat. A slap on the bar to make it flutter returns everything to zero in that case, but not a desirable situation. I would go for stronger springs ( I've had success with the red ones from FR, but FU-Tones and many other make similar products). Those will feel stiffer too but will be considerably more stretched when set up, thus storing more energy to pull the bridge back to zero.

The gadget I reviewed in the thread I linked in my previous post aids the springs in doing their work: it pushes and pulls on the block at the same time thus maintaining the zero position. As an added bonus, strings wont go immediately flat when you bend one and supposedly a drop tuning on the fly is possible too. I'd try something similar, because it helps negate some of the drawbacks of the Floyd while letting it be a Floyd. You only sacrifice the flutters. I think if you have it is worth learning to use it. Now that you have why prevent it from doing what it was designed to do? :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for linking the thread! This is one of the ones I was remembering. I'll give 'er a good read. Is there a way to measure tension of springs? Or if you want high tension springs, do you just search for "high tension springs" and hope that they're higher tension than the ones you already have?
 
alex1fly said:
Thanks everyone! Going to follow up on a few comments here.



You mention a lighter touch on the Floyd. Do you mean on the tremolo bar, or on the guitar itself? I'm finding both to be the case - the trem is more sensitive, sure, but also the guitar begs for a light touch even on .10s. I'm not used to playing a guitar that doesn't like getting a little thwacked. Could the bridge be absorbing the string vibration, moreso than a decked Strat bridge would? No need to answer, just pondering.



...
Click to expand...

I have 9's on mine.

The first thing I discovered was just fine tuning it. I would push the Floyd sharp. I had never experienced this with my Kahlers.

You are correct on playing technique. I really have to ease up on my picking as the Floyd can get a tiny warble/flutter if I "thwack" the strings. Palm muting can be challenging at times as well. It definitely needs a lighter touch than my Kahlers or fixed bridge guitars.

As for using the bar, it does not require anywhere near the force of my Kahlers. I have to be gentle with the Floyd bar, but it still delivers up or down.

It is just different and will likely do a lot to improve my playing technique if I stick with it. Maybe I will get to where I can play like this on all my guitars, then just turn up the aggressiveness when needed. Similar to how I should have kept the Evolution in my mutt Lead II for a while. But at the time that Evo brought every mistake I made through at almost the same level as what I was playing. I blamed the Evo, but in retrospect it could have done a lot to improve my technique. Sometimes I am slow, but I am still learning.
 
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