Ughh.... Choices, choices

[Mont97]

Title sets the tone for this thread, which would you choose?

Epiphone Prophecy Les Paul Custom Plus EX (Midnight blue finish)

Epiphone Zakk Wylde Custom signature

Loving the midnight blue finish, not a big fan on the 24 frets though (perhaps I will like it, am yet to try these guitars)

However, i'm not a fan of signature guitars like the ZW one, with a finish closely associated to a specific artist...

One thing that I find strange is that the bridge pickup on the EX seems to be closer to the bridge than normal LP's... i'm guessing this is to do with the 24 fret neck?

After all this time researching guitars and different body shapes, i've come full circle back the the LP shape....

 

[Psykel]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Why not something like a Epi LP Custom and drop some new pups in?
I know EMG got a complete set of pups and electronics as a Zakk Wylde signature set (not signature pups tho, just the same setup he uses). That way you can make your own Mont97 signature LP.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

What do you like about the guitars that has it narrowed down to these 2?

I don't think the bridge pickup is any closer to the bridge on the prophecy. In order to accommodate the extra frets, it looks to me like they move the bridge and bridge pickup closer to the neck and then they extend the neck to allow for the extra frets and keep the scale length. If you look closely, there looks to be more empty space behind the tailpiece which throws the look off slightly.

 

[alteredbeast]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

having owned a real deal zakk, and played the epi a handful of times, the unfinished necks are schweeeeet. i tend to stay clear of sig guitars now, after owning a bunch, but my vote is for the epi zakk in your case.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

What do you like about the guitars that has it narrowed down to these 2?

I don't think the bridge pickup is any closer to the bridge on the prophecy. In order to accommodate the extra frets, it looks to me like they move the bridge and bridge pickup closer to the neck and then they extend the neck to allow for the extra frets and keep the scale length. If you look closely, there looks to be more empty space behind the tailpiece which throws the look off slightly.

The bridge doesn't move, as that would change the overall scale length (distance from nut to bridge). I'd assume that the only thing that moves is the neck pickup, a bit closer to the bridge.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

The bridge doesn't move, as that would change the overall scale length (distance from nut to bridge). I'd assume that the only thing that moves is the neck pickup, a bit closer to the bridge.

The bridge moves if they also extend the neck like I said to maintain the scale length. I would bet these guitars are longer from the tip of the headstock to the end of the body than your garden variety Epi LP.


Prophecy
Take a look at where that tailepiece sits on the body. The bridge has been moved forward. Look at the knobs for reference even.

Epi Standard
Compare this to the prophecy. Mystery solved.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Im sure the 24 fret neck lends alil different feel, but im sure its typical Les Paul over all. (same shape, same scale length, etc) If you dont want the signature, then go prophecy

 

[FretFire]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

The bridge moves if they also extend the neck like I said to maintain the scale length.

Scale length = distance from the nut to the bridge saddle (more specifically, from the nut to the low E saddle). If you add 2 or 3 more frets the bridge doesn't have to move, the neck pickup does. In fact you can kill the neck pickup and add frets all the way up to the bridge pickup if you want, and the bridge itself won't move if you keep the same scale length.

I would bet these guitars are longer from the tip of the headstock to the end of the body than your garden variety Epi LP.

Very possible, but anything "outside" the nut and bridge saddles (headstock and lower part of the body) is meaningless in regards to scale length.

To me, the bridge pickup on the LTD looks closer to the bridge. I'm sure they did that since the neck pickup had to slide a bit closer to the bridge to accomodate the extra frets. There's no use comparing knob placement and body shape/dimensions on these two guitars, they are different brands and different designs.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Scale length = distance from the nut to the bridge saddle (more specifically, from the nut to the low E saddle). If you add 2 or 3 more frets the bridge doesn't have to move, the neck pickup does. In fact you can kill the neck pickup and add frets all the way up to the bridge pickup if you want, and the bridge itself won't move if you keep the same scale length.



Very possible, but anything "outside" the nut and bridge saddles (headstock and lower part of the body) is meaningless in regards to scale length.

To me, the bridge pickup on the LTD looks closer to the bridge. I'm sure they did that since the neck pickup had to slide a bit closer to the bridge to accomodate the extra frets. There's no use comparing knob placement and body shape/dimensions on these two guitars, they are different brands and different designs.

I know very well what "scale length" is. What you are describing is "typically" what happens when 2 frets are added. The Neck pickup shifts closer to the bridge in order to make room for the extra frets. Its a common thing. This guitar is not set up that way. They keep the scale length by shifting both the bridge and the neck, along with the nut forward. This allows them to add the extra frets and not have them so far into the body where they are really worthless. In doing more research, they have had a few versions of this guitar and they change it a bit every time.

This is the first version. As you can see, the frets go farther into the body. At the horn, the fretboard meets the body around the 19th fret. If you take a look at the picture above, the fretboard meets around the 22nd fret.





In both versions of the guitar, the neck and bridge pickup are closer together as is typical of 24 fret guitars, however on the newer versions, the bridge, neck, nut, headstock, tuners and everything attatched to it are moved. Now, take a good hard look at the pictures before you argue farther.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

I know very well what "scale length" is. What you are describing is "typically" what happens when 2 frets are added. The Neck pickup shifts closer to the bridge in order to make room for the extra frets. Its a common thing. This guitar is not set up that way. They keep the scale length by shifting both the bridge and the neck, along with the nut forward. This allows them to add the extra frets and not have them so far into the body where they are really worthless. In doing more research, they have had a few versions of this guitar and they change it a bit every time.

This is the first version. As you can see, the frets go farther into the body. At the horn, the fretboard meets the body around the 19th fret. If you take a look at the picture above, the fretboard meets around the 22nd fret.




In both versions of the guitar, the neck and bridge pickup are closer together as is typical of 24 fret guitars, however on the newer versions, the bridge, neck, nut, headstock, tuners and everything attatched to it are moved. Now, take a good hard look at the pictures before you argue farther.

I see what you're getting at now. Sorry, but up to this point you've taken some complicated stabs at saying "they don't set the neck as deep into the body". Yes, if they set the neck higher the bridge will be higher to compensate. I think I just read "extend the neck" to mean "extend the fretboard", that's my bad.

Not that it really matters, the OP said they don't like the 24 fret guitar because the bridge pickups looks closer to the bridge. I agree that those two parts look closer together, however you want to explain all the parts moving around.

 

[dmandude123455]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Yeah, if you watch the video on the epiphone website about the guitar, they say how they pretty much pushed the body down a bit to make the playing experience on the higher frets a bit more comfortable.

Just saying.

Also, I would go with the Prophecy. I heard they have satin finished neck and I love me some satin finished necks.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Prophecy... Nice looking guitar in blue. 24 frets and factory EMGs? Seems like a nice set of features if that style of guitar is what you are after.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

I see what you're getting at now. Sorry, but up to this point you've taken some complicated stabs at saying "they don't set the neck as deep into the body". Yes, if they set the neck higher the bridge will be higher to compensate. I think I just read "extend the neck" to mean "extend the fretboard", that's my bad.

Not that it really matters, the OP said they don't like the 24 fret guitar because the bridge pickups looks closer to the bridge. I agree that those two parts look closer together, however you want to explain all the parts moving around.

What they did in the design isnt exactly "not setting the neck as deep into the body". I think they probably set it as deep as they do any other lester. I'd wager the neck is a little longer than standard, so extending the fretboard is probably accurate as well. With the longer neck, the nut is farther away from the body and the bridge is moved to compensate and maintain scale length.

As stated, this would make upper fret access much easier.

I dont see it as complicated. What the've done is clear as day to me by just looking at it. Especially when you compare it to a standard lester.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Yeah, if you watch the video on the epiphone website about the guitar, they say how they pretty much pushed the body down a bit to make the playing experience on the higher frets a bit more comfortable.

Just saying.

Also, I would go with the Prophecy. I heard they have satin finished neck and I love me some satin finished necks.

I believe they both have satin finished necks.

The ZW is a maple neck. Not sure if its completely unfinished, but its not painted.

 

[dmandude123455]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

I believe they both have satin finished necks.

The ZW is a maple neck. Not sure if its completely unfinished, but its not painted.

Yeah, but with the Prophecy you get TWO EXTRA FRETS!!!!!!



:laugh2:


Honestly, OP just play both and see which one suits your fancy more. Your local GC should have one in stock by now.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

What they did in the design isnt exactly "not setting the neck as deep into the body". I think they probably set it as deep as they do any other lester. I'd wager the neck is a little longer than standard, so extending the fretboard is probably accurate as well. With the longer neck, the nut is farther away from the body and the bridge is moved to compensate and maintain scale length.

As stated, this would make upper fret access much easier.

I dont see it as complicated. What the've done is clear as day to me by just looking at it. Especially when you compare it to a standard lester.

I said your explanation was complicated, not the concept :laugh2:

Wouldn't making the neck longer without changing scale length change the distance between frets and throw intonation off?

Actually, the only way I can even think to "make the neck longer" without changing scale length is to extend the fretboard towards the bridge.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Well no, seems I started with a more simple explanation and had to get deeper into it as you continued to argue what was plain to see.

No it wouldnt change the scale length, because i think you just answered your own question.

 

[SrDeMaFp]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

having played the epi a handful of times, the unfinished necks are schweeeeet. i tend to stay clear of sig guitars now, after owning a bunch, but my vote is for the epi zakk in your case.

Agreed. Much better guitar overall (IMO).

 

[FretFire]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Well no, seems I started with a more simple explanation and had to get deeper into it as you continued to argue what was plain to see.

No it wouldnt change the scale length, because i think you just answered your own question.

That's not what I was getting at in my last post, but have a good one. :fing2:

 

[ghostraineverstops]

Re: Ughh.... Choices, choices

Those new epi prophecy ex's been released yet? It's been awhile since they realeased word of them, but I still haven't seen one besides in their promo vids. I'd hit up that over the wylde in most cases, unless you're looking at one with hooks for straploks with serious yellowing on the cream color. I've seen some on ebay for dirt cheap too. They're both good choices if the deal is right. Look for a good deal where you're gonna be happy and not treating the guitar like a fragile little pretty thing, but that it feels good to you and its good, and that it wont bleed your wallet. My 2¢