Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

[Liko]

I have an Epi Les Paul Studio in Worn Brown, that after some attention paid to the setup, is becoming much more of a player. I like the smooth, airy feel of the satin-finish neck compared to the gloss you find on most LPs, and with the latest setup I was able to achieve a much lower action giving this thing a much more easygoing feel. I'm usually very good at setups, but I just hadn't been able to get the strings down to the deck before now, so either something just fell into place with this last setup, or I've tamed my picking hand compared to earlier days. My tri-burst Strat still feels like my favorite pair of blue jeans, and it's thin finish is starting to make it look like that too, but it needs a new set of strings and some similar love (and possibly some professional help with the frets), so the LP has risen dramatically in rank among my regular players. I've gone from wanting to sell it and try something else to it being a solid favorite, more of a "dress casual" outfit to the Strat's weekend look and feel.

However, the tone still leaves something to be desired. Right now they're the stock Epi buckers, with aftermarket black covers to complement the overall conservative looks of the axe, and the bridge in particular is very nasally to my ears. The neck's alright, nothing special, but if I'm looking to upgrade one pickup, why not both?

I play a lot of CCW, so my usual gain structure is ultra-clean, to the point of playing through a bass amp most days. So, I need a pickup set that sounds good even in these more "transparent" (some would say "sterile") conditions. However, it's also gotta crunch nicely through a pedal; I have the Hardwire Tube OD and Valve Distortion pedals on my board, and when the situation permits I'll click 'em on and jam. My Strat behaves nicely in these situations, going from spank and quack to scream. The stock Epi pickups have a reasonable crunch, but they don't clean up well, and I need to change that.

Currently, from the sound samples on this site, the Pearly Gates sounds like my neck pickup, with a nice airy treble sparkle and a present but not in-your-face midrange. I'm on the fence between the Jazz Model and Seth Lover in the bridge; both have a good balanced clean bridge tone in the demos, not too nasally, but they also dirty up nicely. The Dimebucker sounds better in full crunch (as it should), but its clean tone is a metric ton of everything I don't like about my stock bridge, so I'll live with rolling off the treble or tone a little to tame these hairier pickups.

The question is, are these nice, sparkly pickups going to sound too harsh in the high end when you replace the warmth and natural compression of a tube combo with the faithful transparency and headroom of a bass combo? Or, given that these are going into an all-mahogany axe, no maple cap, should I be aiming for bright anyway to supplement the natural warmth of the tonewood?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

You're probably going to want to upgrade both pups at the same time.

My first question is are you set on Duncans or no?

Are you looking for low or medium or hot pups?

Just from what you said if you want transparent sounding pups maybe look at Bill Lawrence. His L-90 models might be up your alley if you don't mind the unconventional look.

For Duncans you could go
PAFs, low out put - Antiquity, seths, Jazz, 59, WLH

Medium out put - Full Shred, Alt 8, Dimebucker


Also to get a bit more high end use low capacitance cables.

 

[Liko]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

You're probably going to want to upgrade both pups at the same time.

My first question is are you set on Duncans or no?

Are you looking for low or medium or hot pups?

Just from what you said if you want transparent sounding pups maybe look at Bill Lawrence. His L-90 models might be up your alley if you don't mind the unconventional look.

For Duncans you could go
PAFs, low out put - Antiquity, seths, Jazz, 59, WLH

Medium out put - Full Shred, Alt 8, Dimebucker


Also to get a bit more high end use low capacitance cables.

SD's are not a must; I've looked at the PAF Pro and 36th Anniversary 'buckers from the DiMarzio line. Even though the 36A's have more midrange than the SDs I'm looking at, they seem to carry it better in demos, retaining sparkle and not being too nasally. However, I've yet to hear a real good demo of their clean tone; everyone's playing them with at least some breakup. Similarly, I'm interested in GFS as a low-cost alternative; the Greybottoms in my Strat worked out really well, though the Fat Pats I had been interested in, being overwound PAF-types, are very middy.

I'm looking for something in the low to medium output range. Even in this range you can get plenty of crunch out of a humbucker, and I'm not a fan of the clean tone of the high-output distortion-oriented pickups.

The Jazz and Seth are on my shortlist for bridge pickups, as I said. The Antiquities were a bit too middy for me in the bridge based on their demo clip, but the shootout vid with the Burstbucker had a much sweeter tone that I liked. I'm not sold on relic'ed pickups for this guitar, though, and that's really what the Antiquities are. Similarly, the 59 bridge was just a touch middy in its clean demo; the resonant peak hits at just the wrong place for my ears. The '59 neck sounds great though, clean and dirty, though the Pearly Gates gives just a little more.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Jazz Set

 

[Inder_Cine_Mann]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

From the sounds you are going for I feel a set of Seth's or WLH set would be perfect for what hou want.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Currently, from the sound samples on this site, the Pearly Gates sounds like my neck pickup, with a nice airy treble sparkle and a present but not in-your-face midrange. I'm on the fence between the Jazz Model and Seth Lover in the bridge; both have a good balanced clean bridge tone in the demos, not too nasally, but they also dirty up nicely.

The question is, are these nice, sparkly pickups going to sound too harsh in the high end when you replace the warmth and natural compression of a tube combo with the faithful transparency and headroom of a bass combo? Or, given that these are going into an all-mahogany axe, no maple cap, should I be aiming for bright anyway to supplement the natural warmth of the tonewood?

Okay, sound clips: what guitar, amp, speakers did they use? What gauge strings? You can't go by them, odds are you can't duplicate them because you won't have their gear. A PU in an LP sounds totally different in a Strat. In an LP, don't count on a PGN to have any sparkle; that's more realistic from a JazzN. I don't care for PGN's in LP's because they're too warm and rounded for me, zero sparkle (and that's with a maple cap, they'd be darker in your guitar). Having an A2 magnet, they're also middy with a loose low end. Does not sound like what you want.

For bright and sparkley, I'd recommend a JazzN and JazzB.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I play a lot of CCW

So, the Seth Lover set is what you want.

Second choice would be the APH-1 set.

HTH,

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I usually agree with most of what Blueman says, but I totally disagree with his analysis of the PG in the neck ("too warm and rounded for me, zero sparkle"). The PG used to be my favorite neck pup, but it recently lost ground to other pups because the PG had TOO MUCH sparkle. But I absolutely agree with Rick when he brings the amp and speakers into the equation (and that could very well be the reason we differ on our evaluation of the PG...one of my amps is very sparkly, but I play through three).

First thing to understand is that just about any new pup is going to be a huge improvement over those stock Epi pups in clarity, EQ, and response. I believe your guitar is solid mahogany (no maple cap) and won't have the snap and sparkle that a LP with a maple cap will have. Thus the added sparkle of a PG neck will work wonders in your guitar. So will the Seth, or the APH-1, or the Jazz, or the 59. My current favorite neck pups are the Screamin Demon, the 59/C hybrid, and the Demon/C hybrid.

You've got so many choices available for the bridge that will fit what you want that it is impossible to give you an adequate recommendation. Nevertheless, the suggestions already given are pretty good. The Screamin Demon is the first pup that popped into my mind when reading your description of what you want and may actually be perfect for what you are looking for. My current favorite bridge pups are P-Rail (WAY versatile, and lovely P-90 tone), P-90 (I love the GFS Mean 90), Alt 8 (may be a little middy or dark for what you want...but still a huge, huge, huge improvement over what you now have), and Distortion with an A2 mag...I don't like the overpowering brittle high-end of the ceramic mag(but this may have more output than you're looking for even though it cleans up very well and has great articulation).

If you are looking to save money, the GFS Mean 90 is a great sounding P-90 pup in a humbucker size and sounds good in bridge and neck.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Doc: you like warm neck PU's and bright bridge PU's, and maybe the OP does too. I like them to be closer in EQ (bright neck and warm bridge). Regardless, I just don't hear much treble in a PGN in an LP. Seth's and A2P's have more high-end in the neck slot, which is why I prefer them, but I wouldn't consider either to have a lot of sparkle. For that, I'd look at a Jazz or P-90.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

my usual gain structure is ultra-clean, to the point of playing through a bass amp most days. So, I need a pickup set that sounds good even in these more "transparent" (some would say "sterile") conditions. However, it's also gotta crunch nicely through a pedal; I have the Hardwire Tube OD and Valve Distortion pedals on my board, and when the situation permits I'll click 'em on and jam. My Strat behaves nicely in these situations, going from spank and quack to scream. The stock Epi pickups have a reasonable crunch, but they don't clean up well, and I need to change that.

good balanced clean bridge tone in the demos, not too nasally, but they also dirty up nicely.

The question is, are these nice, sparkly pickups going to sound too harsh in the high end when you replace the warmth and natural compression of a tube combo with the faithful transparency and headroom of a bass combo? Or, given that these are going into an all-mahogany axe, no maple cap, should I be aiming for bright anyway to supplement the natural warmth of the tonewood?

Pretty much anything will be sparklier and more enjoyable to use than the epihone pickups. it will be a night and day kind of contrast when you upgrade from those.

Going by the op's preference for super clean and even his use of bass amps (and their inhernet eq curve), i reckon the regular 59 set will be a really good fit. Plenty of treble bite, plenty of clarity and a nice big, defined low end. Clean sound in spades, dirty sound hold together even under high gain.
And, if they are anything less than perfect for the op, he has the option of magnet swapping at some stage in the future to fine tune the response.

Whatever pickups you choose, spend a few extra dollars and replace all the pots cap and wiring in your epi too.

 

[Liko]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Pretty much anything will be sparklier and more enjoyable to use than the epihone pickups. it will be a night and day kind of contrast when you upgrade from those.

Going by the op's preference for super clean and even his use of bass amps (and their inhernet eq curve), i reckon the regular 59 set will be a really good fit. Plenty of treble bite, plenty of clarity and a nice big, defined low end. Clean sound in spades, dirty sound hold together even under high gain.
And, if they are anything less than perfect for the op, he has the option of magnet swapping at some stage in the future to fine tune the response.

Whatever pickups you choose, spend a few extra dollars and replace all the pots cap and wiring in your epi too.

Thanks for this. The Seth Lover full set and Jazz set were also mentioned, and with the recent revelation that I can get Seth Lovers potted and shelled in black matte covers as "Floor Shop Customs", I'm liking them. Here's the official SD YouTube, which shows off the clean tones in a Goldtop. I'm in love with that middle tone; the bridge is a little middy (others might call it fat and spanky).

As far as wiring, yeah, it's all still totally stock. I'm planning on changing the tone pickoff point to 50's style (post-volume instead of pre-volume) this weekend, and seeing what that does with the stock pickups. It should brighten them up considerably, since the pots will no longer be in parallel. I might also grab some mylar film caps to replace whatever cheapos are in there now. I'll spring for a full wiring upgrade to go with the new pickups when that time comes.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I'd go for a set of Pearly Gates. Uncovered if you're a rocker who favors distorted tones and covered if you favor sweeter, cleaner and classic blues tones.

I've been playing a killer '91 Les Paul Studio Lite for the last week and just loving it. Two uncovered Pearly Gates with 500K volume and tone pots.

I know some guys hear the PG's as being to bright. I play through vintage blackface Deluxe Reverb amps and I don't.

I think that set sounds tremendous and I do not hear that set as being to bright.

I do use a Celestion speaker and do turn the treble control down until the amp sounds right to me. Sounds good to me at about 5 or 6.

The bridge pickup has a cool, gravelly, sort of grit with a lot of texture. I guess some guys must call that bright. I don't.

The neck pickup is my favorite Duncan neck humbucker. Great clean tones and great soloing tones.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I know some guys hear the PG's as being to bright.

What some forum members say is that PGB's are on the bright side, which contrasts with PGN's which are fairly warm (one of Duncan's warmest neck HB's). If you like a big EQ difference between bridge and neck PU's, than you may like a PG set.

Lew: we just had a similar thread where a guy was looking for a bright neck PU in his LP, and you recommended a PGN, which baffled a number of us. Since this guy's wanting 'sparkly' without a lot of mids, I don't think a PGN is the best choice this time around either. God bless you for loving PG's, but they're not the answer to every PU question.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

What some forum members say is that PGB's are on the bright side, which contrasts with PGN's which are fairly warm (one of Duncan's warmest neck HB's). If you like a big EQ difference between bridge and neck PU's, than you may like a PG set.

Lew: we just had a similar thread where a guy was looking for a bright neck PU in his LP, and you recommended a PGN, which baffled a number of us. Since this guy's wanting 'sparkly' without a lot of mids, I don't think a PGN is the best choice this time around either. God bless you for loving PG's, but they're not the answer to every PU question.

Yes. The Duncan PGn is my favorite Duncan neck humbucker that I've owned. I like it covered and I like it uncovered. To me the PG sounds like a different pickup when it's covered compared to the way it sounds uncovered.

I've had it in Fenders, I've had it in solid body and semi-hollow Hamers and I've had it in Gibsons.

The most anyone here can do is make recommendations based on their own experiences.

There are humbuckers with more treble. The Jazz neck has more treble. I don't find it to be as pleasant a pickup to listen to as the PG.

I like the way I sound when I use a PG - I don't like the way I sound as much when I use a Jazz.

So I don't recommend it as often as the PGn because I don't have the same confidence in the Jazz.

The PGn, on the other hand, gets a lot of love here. Gearjoneser has said it's his favorite and I respect his opinion over many less experienced members here.

And I also trust my own 45 years of experience.

This EQ difference between neck and bridge pickups you're always mentioning is something that all vintage style pickup sets have. You could say the same thing about every vintage Strat and every vintage Les Paul ever created.

It's the point of having a bridge pickup instead of just a neck pickup.

If you listened to a PGn in the neck position, then removed it and put that same pickup in the bridge position of that same guitar you'd hear a very different sound from that same pickup. You'd hear a sound with much more twang, much more treble and much less bass.

There's no EQ difference inherent in the pickup itself. It's just the sound of the pickup being in a different location on the guitar and being much closer to the bridge of the guitar.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Doc: you like warm neck PU's and bright bridge PU's, and maybe the OP does too. I like them to be closer in EQ (bright neck and warm bridge). Regardless, I just don't hear much treble in a PGN in an LP. Seth's and A2P's have more high-end in the neck slot, which is why I prefer them, but I wouldn't consider either to have a lot of sparkle. For that, I'd look at a Jazz or P-90.

Rick, I agree that I like warm neck pups and I usually like bright bridge pups (some of my guitars actually have warm bridge pups like Alt 8, DD with an A2, P-Rails with UOA5 and A8, etc.). And that's because I play lots of variety of music and don't like to change my guitar mid-set. But I think that our biggest difference in pup preference may be due to our amps EQs and speakers. I mainly play through three amps: one is a very warm EL84 amp with warm speakers (Swamp Thangs), one is a bright digital amp with full range speakers (Celestion Seventy 80), and one is a fairly mid-scooped 6V6 vintage toned amp with similar sounding speakers. That gives me lots of sparkle even from pups that you may consider too warm like the PG. Yes, I agree that the PG is warm...that's why I love it in the neck, but it has a lot of high-end sparkle as well, which is really coaxed out by my rig setup.

I am perfectly happy to agree to disagree with you on matters of tone because I think we hear things differently, we like different tones, and have different rigs that make us hear the tone of our pups differently. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. I still love ya and all of your knowledge and expertise. Keep up the good work

 

[agentzero12]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I'll drop my vote in for the prails set. Single coils, p90 and hums together. Maybe even the phat cats. They are hum sized p90s.

 

[agentzero12]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

Also I'd like to say that I find epis to be fantastic guitars. They need a good setup and good pups but I'm a big fan of them.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I play a lot of CCW, so my usual gain structure is ultra-clean, to the point of playing through a bass amp most days. So, I need a pickup set that sounds good even in these more "transparent" (some would say "sterile") conditions. However, it's also gotta crunch nicely through a pedal; I have the Hardwire Tube OD and Valve Distortion pedals on my board, and when the situation permits I'll click 'em on and jam. My Strat behaves nicely in these situations, going from spank and quack to scream. The stock Epi pickups have a reasonable crunch, but they don't clean up well, and I need to change that.

Currently, from the sound samples on this site, the Pearly Gates sounds like my neck pickup, with a nice airy treble sparkle and a present but not in-your-face midrange. I'm on the fence between the Jazz Model and Seth Lover in the bridge; both have a good balanced clean bridge tone in the demos, not too nasally, but they also dirty up nicely. The Dimebucker sounds better in full crunch (as it should), but its clean tone is a metric ton of everything I don't like about my stock bridge, so I'll live with rolling off the treble or tone a little to tame these hairier pickups. The question is, are these nice, sparkly pickups going to sound too harsh in the high end when you replace the warmth and natural compression of a tube combo with the faithful transparency and headroom of a bass combo? Or, given that these are going into an all-mahogany axe, no maple cap, should I be aiming for bright anyway to supplement the natural warmth of the tonewood?

I'm not sure of the band reference (CCW). But the Jazz neck will do great cleans, and since it's wax potted, will hold up better than the Seth if you ever need to play through high wattage amps at high volumes. As for their EQ, the Jazz will do you fine. It's not as bright as the EQ curve suggests, at least to me, but you can adjust your brightness as needed on it, especially with a tone knob, so it will be fine. The Jazz or '59 should be good. I've never played on the Dimebucker. However, if it ends up like the Full Shred, I've noticed that at least with the Full Shred, it still sounds rather nice with a mild overdrive. I was expecting it to sound only good with distortion, but that was not the case. So I would say you can try the Dimebucker, if that's what your ears like, and if it don't work, use the real world exchange plan to select a different pickup.

 

[Liko]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

I'm not sure of the band reference (CCW)

CCW = Contemporary Christian Worship genre. Basically adult contemporary/modern country with the appropriate message. I'm Lutheran, and that denom has a rich musical tradition, but is very traditional about it, so I gotta be careful bringing in an electric in the first place. God does do overdrive, but the same can't be said for all the faithful.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Umpteenth "What pickups for my Epi Les Paul" thread

CCW = Contemporary Christian Worship genre. Basically adult contemporary/modern country with the appropriate message. I'm Lutheran, and that denom has a rich musical tradition, but is very traditional about it, so I gotta be careful bringing in an electric in the first place. God does do overdrive, but the same can't be said for all the faithful.

Oh, then that's right up my alley. Get the Hot Rodded Combo: it works great (Jazz/JB). Another set that works great for this, believe it or not, is the Full Shred combo (neck and bridge). I wouldn't go with the Distortion because you'll lose your cleans, but that's just me. Also, the '59/Custom combo would probably work great as well. You can also do the Seth Lover neck if you want, because usually at church you won't run enough wattage to notice the lack of wax potting, but me, I prefer to stay with wax potted pickups. I would also imagine that any of the Custom series bridge pickups (Custom/Custom 5/Custom Custom) should work fine. Good luck!

I played for years in church with the Hot Rodded Combo and the '59/JB combo. Recently I went with the Jazz/FS in my Showmaster and so far that works great for CCW.