Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

[Koreth]

So, I see names of different Fender amps thrown about here and on different guitar forums, but being a darned young 'un, I don't get really what the difference is or why a Deluxe Reverb is more special than a Twin Reverb. Really, all about I do know about fenders is that I've plugged in to two silverface Twin Reverbs, one smaller silverface something or other (Princeton? Deluxe?) and one Hot Rod Deluxe, and each and every one of them had a beautiful clean tone. That and Twins get LOUD and quickly.

I've been staring at the schematics trying to figure out how the lineup went, but not only are there's so many models, but there's so many versions of each model. It very quickly gets confusing. Then we throw in terms like tweed, brownface, blackface silverface, etc.

I can stare at circuit diagrams all day and never get anywhere. Can someone with some more experience with Fender amps tell me what the general hierarchy of the classic models is? (Champ, Princeton, Deluxe, Twin? etc...)

 

[jeremy]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

look at the fender amp field guide. it has listings for lots of models.

chronologically it goes woody, tv front, wide panel tweed, narrow panel tweed, brown/blonde tolex, black tolex with black face plate (blackface), black tolex with silver face plate (silverface) and then it all goes to hell.

for models champs, princeton, deluxe, super, twin

but its not really that simple. like the bassman, it was supposed to be a bass amp but was a much cooler guitar amp so where does that fit in? the tweed super/bandmaster/pro were basically all the same circuit but with different speakers and a couple componant changes. vibrolux, tremolux, vibroverb, showman, etc... all can be cool amps but hard to say which is "better" than another
confused yet?

 

[B Bent]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

In a very quick nutshell, it all started with the Tweed covered Fenders back in the late 40's(yeah I realize K&F, woodies and all that but....). The Tweeds continued on into the 50's and (early 60's for a few models.) The names would remain as the models were "upgraded" in the early-mid 60's (think brownface and blondes) to have a cleaner tone with less distortion/breakup. I think it is pretty fair assessment and common thought that Leo and crew were always trying to make amps' tone cleaner even though they were creating rock n roll tone that would shape modern music and create a whole new genre.

Some models would keep the same names, but can vary hugely across the years. After the Tweed, brown/blonde years the transition to blackface started happening. Then alot of the BF amps started seeing reverb around the 64' time frame. In 1965 Leo Fender sold to CBS which started another transition phase. The next 2 years or so BF Fender cosmetic and circuitry would remain in tact for the most part, then I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) in 67 and 68 things started getting the silver face (Silverfaced Fenders) cosmetics and some circuitry changes. Some amps werent effected as bad as others. By the 70's and especially mid 70's you started seeing master volumes, push/pull pots for a "boost" and UL designs.

Ultimately the lineage and names kept to somewhat of a trend across the years even though the circuits changed VERY drastically. Take a Champ for example. It has always been a 4-5 watt amp (except in the 80's) single ended 1x8 combo its entire life. It's not like they change the original tweed champ at some point to a 2x12 80 watt combo w/ reverb and trem. Ya catch my drift?

You need to grab the Fender Amps The 1st 60 years book. You'll catch on when you read that.

The reason a Deluxe Reverb can be more desirable than a Twin is for sheer power and size reasons. A 22 watt 1x12 combo that can be easily carried to gigs and cranked enough for a good tone is usually more desirable than a 2x12 85 watt monster that weighs 80 pounds. You get a similar tone thats easy to carry and doesnt kill the club you're playing when cranked.

That help? It was very spotty, but hopefully gives you some ideas.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

Here's some of the ones I know about.

Vibrochamps= practice amp w/ vibrato. Nice for a bedroom amp. A lil breakup when cranked.
Princeton/princeton reverb= 2x6v6 practice or recording amp. The reverb ones habe more gain because of the tube reverb circuit, and are usually much better sounding amps. Usually about 15W. Really lush sounding amp sorta like the vibrato channel on a deluxe reverb, but sounds small because of the 10" speaker.
Deluxe Reverb= 22W 6v6. A normal channel and a vibrato channel. The vibe channel has more gain because of the extra tube in the circuit. One of the most recorded amps in history. A giggable amp if you like a dirty fender sound, it starts to break up around 4 or 5 on the volume.
Super Reverb=45 W of 6l6s. it also does the whole "normal channel, vibrato channel" thing. It a 4x10 combo i think
Twin Reverb= 4x6l6, 85W in the blackface era. same normal and vibrato channel scheme.


Twin Amp= Working-man's 2x12 combo. Early tweed ones were 2x6l6, with something around 25W. Later it became 4 6l6s for something like 80W. A fatter, warmer kinda sound than a twin reverb, breaks up more when cranked. Think Keith Richards.
Bassman= Aoriginally a bass guitar amp. 4x10" speakers. 2 5881s, more wattage than the early twin, I think. Something like 40W? More of that fat, fat breakup, but not as loud as a high-powered twin.

those have been some of the more popular models. Most of these comments are about the blackface versions of the first several amps and the tweed version of the last two.
Fender went through a bunch of eras which can be broken up mostly based on cosmetics and the designs of each era. The ones you'll hear about most are:
Tweed=fat vintage fender sound.
Blackface= Scooped mids, cleaner sounds, and more "hi-fi"
Silverface= like the blackface era, but generally not as smooth or rich sounding
Rivera era= weird stuff here. I've only ever played a Twin II and I didn't like it much. I don't know a ton about it.

 

[Koreth]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

So this explains why the Princeton seemed to originally be a fancier Champ with a bigger speaker, a tone knob and one gain stage's cathode fully bypassed for more gain, then later became a 2x6V6 PP design that seems redundant when one considers 2x6V6 PP is what the Deluxe is.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

the deluxe was originally more of a working man's amp when the first one camp out, whereas the princeton was more of a student model.
The deluxe reverb particularly expands upon the 2x6v6 platform by having 2 channels and more wattage, and a fuller, warmer sound.

 

[B Bent]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

THIS site gives a ton of useful info on Fender amps, models and such.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

Fender amps changed a LOT of the years of their production...take the Super for example...

The earilest Supers were a tweed 2x10 combo in a split/V front cab design and produced about 18-20 watts and had a simple layout of vol/vol/tone, the next ones were very similar but in a more standard cab, after that they were to a similar but more compact cab, still 2x10's but the control layout grew to vol/vol/treb/bass and the power grew to about 30-35 watts, after that we got the first non tweed Super, it was a brownface amp, still 35ish watts with an all new cab design, still 2x10's but now each channel had it's own bass and treb controls and the amp now had a vibrato circiut as well as a prec that worked on both channels, yet again more changes in 64 when the Super went Blackface...The Blackface Super Reverb upped the power again to 45 watts this time, added reverb and went to the popular 4x10 combo and the vibrato, which had been global switched to a tremolo that only worked on one channel...in the 70's, during the SF era the Super Reverb changed one last time to an ultra linera output section producing 75 watts into those 4x10's...

And actually...there was even one more Super Reerb amp in the 90's that was channel switching...

Thats just one amp...you could read for days and still not know it all.

The Fender Field Guide is your friend.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Amp-Bo...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277421449&sr=1-1

This book will demistify fenders to most people.

 

[gregsguitars]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

Read this article ....

 

[tonefreak1527]

Re: Understanding the classic Fender Lineup

for blackface there were 1 preamp, 4power amps, and every speaker combo under the sun, so the math, and end up with a ton of models