Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

[Wattage]

Have you used one?

NIOSH makes a free smart phone app that seems clean and it's very easy to use.

2 guitars in so far, not going hyper crazy but trying to get them all to be pretty close at their peaks.

One guitar it seemed to make a big difference the other not so much as it was already very close. The first one I only got recently and hadn't really dialed it in yet so I figured I'd give it a shot to see if it made it noticibly easier to do. I have to say yes based on the initial results.

Finishing a setup on a friend's guitar and then trying it on that one too.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

I don't think there's any advantage to every single string having the same volume. If a particular pickup is still falling short with its tone after I adjust the height, I'll adjust individual pole pieces closer or farther from the strings to fine tune the tone even further. For example, to fix boomy bass, I'll drop the E and A pole pieces further away from the strings.

BTW, an issue you have with using an app on your phone is that it will give you the decibel reading of sound, but it won't tell you the perceived loudness of a given sound. At the same dB rating different frequencies will sound louder or quieter than others. Look up an equal loudness contour to see what I mean.

 

[Wattage]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

There is more than likely going to be some flaw(s) in this plan, I came up with it. :dunce:

Yes of course ears will still have to be involved. I guess I should've said that the major part of dialing them in was all done by ear and then this was for fine tuning, not correcting some larger issue with the tone of the pickups. I prefer my string to string volume to be pretty evenly balanced and I almost always have screwdrivers in my case or bag to tweak guitars as I am using them. It's always been strictly by ear so I am trying something different to see where it takes me.
If something ends up having a skewed perceived volume difference I can adjust accordingly.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

I always go for a tonal quality over an absolute volume balance.
If you are a very even player then then you could indeed try and balance volumes so you pick and everything is the same type of response all the time. My playing is heavy on the dynamics.....so I'm not going for even volume at any point. I'm more about the way the pickups respond.....and will adjust so they fulfill that end.

 

[Wattage]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

I don’t see how it could diminish dynamics unless a robot was playing with the exact same attack on every pick stroke?

The guitars sounds fuller and more open and it literally took about a minute or 2 each to do.

If you’re thrilled with your sound then there’s little need to try. I seem to be regularly tweaking 40+ years into this and wanted to try something different with some sort of measurement

 

[Larioso]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

I do this with meters to first adjust bass and treble side of each pickup, then even as a starting point do neck and bridge about the same level in peaks.
I feel it gives a good balance, and you hear every string even in a chord if balanced.
I don't use any app - just a mackie mixer where I adjust gain on mixer freneticly picking 1st string so meter peaks at 0 dB.
Then do 6th string, without touching fader on mixer but adjust height of bass side pickup so peaking at 0 dB too.

There is no need to adjust to fletcher-munson curves for ears or anything, then we could not play different pitches at all without freaking out.

Balance levels like this is a good starting point. If any single string 2-5th deviate too much I try to fix that with pole screws.

We all know that adjusting height of pickup 1mm makes a difference, but that happends when we fret a string as well. So no need to go overboard on the matter.

Just a good starting point for an balanced instrument. Some say good string separation.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

Ears hear different frequencies differently. Something that's 50 dB at 1000 Hz will be percieved as much louder than something that's 50 dB at 100 Hz. You might find that setting poles by dB ends up making the guitar sound more off kilter than setting by ear. It's worth experimenting with though.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

That seems like a lot of work for something that I am not sure would give a good result. I don't think, in the end, we want everything that perfect.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

Ears hear different frequencies differently. Something that's 50 dB at 1000 Hz will be percieved as much louder than something that's 50 dB at 100 Hz. You might find that setting poles by dB ends up making the guitar sound more off kilter than setting by ear. It's worth experimenting with though.

^ This

 

[Wattage]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

That seems like a lot of work for something that I am not sure would give a good result. I don't think, in the end, we want everything that perfect.

It’s funny I got the idea from an SD blog post

 

[Larioso]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

Yes, that is the fletscher-munson curves.
1st string at 12th fret is 880 Hz, 6th string open is 82 Hz and at 12th 164 Hz, and as we play will be all kind of pitches that our ears will hear at different levels.
Every string span 2 octaves or so.
We hear all music deviated like that, as our ears perceive it.

But looked in Dan Erlewines books where wellknown players luthiers reveal how their artist guitars are set up. And I saw nobody deviated bass side of pickup height, to my surprise. That we maybe play play thicker strings lighter or something and thinner strings harder - without thinking about it.

Lower pitch on bass strings will generate lower signal due to that level is speed of movement dependent, pitch in short, but maybe make up for it with more metal in string moving in the magnetic field.

Difference is not like you only hear half of strings. I just tested many years ago and liked the balanced sound as you strum a chord.
If it were to be a huge thing - everybody would do it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

It’s funny I got the idea from an SD blog post

Probably not one I wrote....haha.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

It might be an okay way to rough things in, but isn't "apparent loudness" frequency dependent? I don't see why it couldn't be done just as well by ear. It doesn't take a lot of time, it isn't difficult, and you'd need to do it after using your method anyhow.

One of my pet peeves of classic style Fender Jazz Basses is the horrible volume mismatch between strings. Yes, balanced string output is a very good thing IMO. You can achieve it on flat-poled pickups by careful selective demagnetizing of certain poles. This is the method Lindy Fralin suggested to me on the phone when I was explaining that I wanted to have my Jazz Bass pickups staggered.

 

[chadd]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

Can't imagine why you would do that instead of adjusting by ear. It's not like there's any benefit to it. But hey, if it works for you, cool

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

Volume consistency from string to string is pretty important to me. One of my favorite things about a P bass is being able to adjust the pickups to really even out each string. Granted, I do it by ear, but I started off thinking tuners were unnecessary because someone told me doing it by ear was better. I'm gonna download the NIOSH meter and give it a try. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[d2718]

Re: Using a dB meter to balance pickup/poles

All that work with a VU meter is going out the window as soon as the rest of the band starts playing--or even when playing in a room with non-flat frequency response (which is, y'know, any actual physical room).

With a bass I think it's probably a more reasonable thing to worry about--it's the only thing delivering power way down there between hits from the kick drum, and if one note sounds good but the next drops way out, it's going to make an audible (and feelable) difference. Still, I'd forego the meter and just do it perceptually through my amp at performance volume, because the feeling of your chest being thumped is going to contribute to perceived loudness in a different way than just the raw signal level (as measured by a meter). Still, if you're playing in a room with a dead spot at 110 Hz, you're never going to feel that A as satisfyingly as some of the other notes.

Were I recording, I might worry about what the board's VU meter is saying, but I still think I'd be more likely to use some combination of listening through and looking at the metering on the compressor. (Again, that's with a bass--with a guitar I can't imagine ever doing more than making it sound pretty okay.)