Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

[allbutromeo]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I'd say my right 90-95% amp distortion. Every amp I have has enough gain for what I do, but I like the tone I get running a boost/light OD in front gets me. I use a MkV on 45w or a 50w JCM900 and a Sparkle Drive with the gain at 9 o'clock, volume at 3, and clean blend at 2 o'clock, it's just enough to dirty up when hitting the clean channel hard and gives the OD channels a punchiness that I haven't been able to get otherwise.

 

[DMR]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

It's where I'm at at the moment that attracts me to this thread.
My amp has or had an awesome Gain channel. I don't know if I out grew it over the years or it's hurt( I just had it serviced with new tubes and the Bias set) or I just got use to running a tube screamer in front of it and now I like that tone.
When I purchased my Krank Revolution 1 back in 2006 brand new, I could not believe the killer crushing tone I got out of it. Short story I had the Krank Distortion pedal in front of my Fender Twin reverb and loved that tone. Found the amp and away I went.
Today 10 years later I have had many distortion pedals and 3 Boss GT processors in 4CM with that amp. Currently I have the GT-100 and also have pedals. I keep switching back and forth and now I want to blow it all out and start over as I'm frustrated with my gain channel as I can't seem to retain that high gain tight sound I use to have. I don't get it.
As far as your question , I much prefer a amp's gain channel over any pedal I have ever used. I will say this, there are plenty out there that will get most people exactly where they want to be including myself. I have plugged into many OD Distortion type pedals and thought "I would buy an amp that sounds like this".
Mesa Boogie has some of the best gain channels I have ever heard along with ENGL and Peavey. I'm a Metal guy and I like a tight strong aggressive sounding gain channel. My Krank once did that for me and today it takes a tube screamer for it to sound like it did by itself. or like I said maybe it does sound like it self and I'm just so use to the tube screamer in front of it so when I remove it the amp now sounds weak like my input signal isn't hitting the front end hard enough.

I think you're just used to the TS in front. I experience the same with my setup. I'll dial in a nice tone using my amp's gain. Then i kick on my OD for a boost and then it sounds even better. And then after a while of playing i'll turn off the OD and the amp' s tone will seem so weak by comparison.

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I mix it up. Sometimes the amp's own distortion, sometimes an OD/Fuzz/Distortion, sometimes a clean boost to push the amp harder, sometimes I use a blend of all 3 methods.

I have always felt you should get the best sounding amp you can afford, the more versatile the better. While I love pedals, they really are just a way of getting different sounds the amp can't produce alone or a lead boost. To me, having a selection of different pedals is similar to how painters have a selection of different brushes.

 

[mantis]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I have a Krank Revolution 1 and I love the gain channel. I use it and nothing else. I try so hard to get rock tones out of it but it's a high gain monster and has no business trying to play Rock.
So what I have to do in that case is use a pedal. But for Metal, it crushes.

 

[Progbusters]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

So, anyone here actually use their amp's (natural) distortion versus slapping an OD/Dist in front?

Not often because you have to play it loud

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I have a Krank Revolution 1 and I love the gain channel. I use it and nothing else. I try so hard to get rock tones out of it but it's a high gain monster and has no business trying to play Rock.
So what I have to do in that case is use a pedal. But for Metal, it crushes.

You could always try turning the gain down but it sounds like it's not an option.:cool2:

 

[vivanchenko]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I much prefer the sound of power tubes pushed by a good overdrive to any preamp dominated distortion that I have ever heard. If I have a chance to get loud I crank power amp/phase inverter. Unlike distortion pedals, overdrives do not change the base tone. They just add saturation and often change EQ, or allow to change EQ almost anyway you want, but the character of distortion remains unchanged.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I much prefer the sound of power tubes pushed by a good overdrive to any preamp dominated distortion that I have ever heard. If I have a chance to get loud I crank power amp/phase inverter. Unlike distortion pedals, overdrives do not change the base tone. They just add saturation and often change EQ, or allow to change EQ almost anyway you want, but the character of distortion remains unchanged.

Hey scooter if you are pushing the front of the amp with an overdrive you are only overloading the input stage and causing it to clip. So that sweet sweet power tube distortion your creaming over is actually V1 being pushed into clipping. It's preamp all the way. You do understand how clipping works right? If V1 is clipping that is the maximum amount of signal that it will push to V2. That's why it's clipped off, it can't give any more. Pushing more signal into the input won't drive the power tubes harder but it will make that first stage clip more.

For those that are hardcore must be power tube distortion, first it's almost impossible to run an amp with a purely clean preamp and a distorted power amp. When you crank your bandmaster to 10 the preamp tubes are clipping also. 2nd power tubes don't distort like preamp tubes do, that clipping your hearing is the PI. As you turn the amp up there is a change in the interaction between the power tubes and output transformer that enhances the sound but it's not the clipping.


People get too bunged up it must be this or that, it must be your amps "natural" gain. Some of the most iconic guitar sounds ever put to record were done with pedals and stomp boxes. Someone tell SRV his tone isn't "natural" cause he's got a stomp box out front. Buncha hooey

 

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I go through spells where I like pedals and spells where I use the amp. I don't really care as long as I like what comes out the speaker.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

Hey scooter if you are pushing the front of the amp with an overdrive you are only overloading the input stage and causing it to clip. So that sweet sweet power tube distortion your creaming over is actually V1 being pushed into clipping. It's preamp all the way. You do understand how clipping works right? If V1 is clipping that is the maximum amount of signal that it will push to V2. That's why it's clipped off, it can't give any more. Pushing more signal into the input won't drive the power tubes harder but it will make that first stage clip more.

For those that are hardcore must be power tube distortion, first it's almost impossible to run an amp with a purely clean preamp and a distorted power amp. When you crank your bandmaster to 10 the preamp tubes are clipping also. 2nd power tubes don't distort like preamp tubes do, that clipping your hearing is the PI. As you turn the amp up there is a change in the interaction between the power tubes and output transformer that enhances the sound but it's not the clipping.


People get too bunged up it must be this or that, it must be your amps "natural" gain. Some of the most iconic guitar sounds ever put to record were done with pedals and stomp boxes. Someone tell SRV his tone isn't "natural" cause he's got a stomp box out front. Buncha hooey

It's good to see you posting again!

 

[Lampy H]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

Unlike distortion pedals, overdrives do not change the base tone. They just add saturation and often change EQ, or allow to change EQ almost anyway you want, but the character of distortion remains unchanged.

My experience leads me to disagree with this.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

Unlike distortion pedals, overdrives do not change the base tone. They just add saturation and often change EQ, or allow to change EQ almost anyway you want, but the character of distortion remains unchanged.

So an overdrive changes EQ and clips the signal even further, but doesn't change the base tone? What's your idea of a base tone - mine is the very basic characters of an amps sound - EQ, clipping/compression. Those three components alone of a sound have a pretty broad range of descriptions, and there aren't really that many ways to describe a sound past those basic traits.

I'd rather just ignore whatever "rules" there are. Sometimes I want (or a song calls for) a fuzz pedal, or a treble booster, or an OD pedal, or a distortion pedal, or no pedals at all. There's thousands of different types of dirt pedals out there (each having varying degrees of unique sound attributes) for thousands of amps (with even more possible unique sounds). There are no rules with that many possible combinations. There isn't really just "overdrive" as a universal effect pedal - there's common/classic models, but it's still a vaguely defined effect open to a listener's interpretation. Not liking say, distortion pedals, is like saying "I don't like pickup trucks" - they both can be used as tools with a purpose, and there are a number of valid reasons to not really desire them all that much, but the terms are just so vague that it's possible for there to be counter-examples to a person's claim that they don't even know about. I wouldn't like driving a Ford F-150 - just not my style; most pickup trucks aren't - but would I like an El Camino? Hell yeah! Even though it's technically a pickup truck, I think they're cool. The same could be said about not liking distortion pedals - not all distortions sound or perform the same.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

Hey scooter if you are pushing the front of the amp with an overdrive you are only overloading the input stage and causing it to clip. So that sweet sweet power tube distortion your creaming over is actually V1 being pushed into clipping. It's preamp all the way. You do understand how clipping works right? If V1 is clipping that is the maximum amount of signal that it will push to V2. That's why it's clipped off, it can't give any more. Pushing more signal into the input won't drive the power tubes harder but it will make that first stage clip more.

Edgecrusher said it so I don't have to. If you want an overdrive to push the power tubes, stick it in your effects loop. I doubt it'll stay there very long.



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[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I'm going to build an amp that's just a power tube.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I'm going to build an amp that's just a power tube.

On the flip side of that, I remember reading somewhere that when Randall Smith built his first cascading-gain stand alone preamp, the player testing it accidentally plugged it into the speaker instead of the power amp, and it actually drove the speaker.

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

Edgecrusher said it so I don't have to. If you want an overdrive to push the power tubes, stick it in your effects loop. I doubt it'll stay there very long.



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I would rather suggest a clean boost in the loop, but I would advise turning it up very gradually until you find that point where the tubes are pushed but you're not getting a loud squealing sound.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I would rather suggest a clean boost in the loop, but I would advise turning it up very gradually until you find that point where the tubes are pushed but you're not getting a loud squealing sound.

I wasn't suggesting it as my preferred approach.


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[Van Noord]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

My whole time playing (only 19 years) I've strived to ONLY use amp gain.
I went through my "boosted" phase, and mastered the technique over the years, but closed that door years back.

For my playing style (eighties metal/Hetfieldesque/Black/Doom metal concussion crunch)...my best and ideal tone is a moderate output articulate bridge bucker through an insanely hot and thick gain channel.

Many amps have come and gone, but the two primary remainders are the JVM and JSX. Nothing else will suffice.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I've noticed that while boosted amps give a more immediate gratification, just running straight into the gain channel sits better in the mix 90% of the time.

 

[philthis]

Re: Using Your Amp's (Natural) Distortion

I've noticed that while boosted amps give a more immediate gratification, just running straight into the gain channel sits better in the mix 90% of the time.

I agree with this :haha: most distortion or overdrive pedals are designed to sound like a pushed amp wile playing at lower volumes, if your already pushing the tubes I think most pedals conflict with your amps good tone unless your using a clean amp or an amp set to almost breakup tone. I think a natural pushed tube tone from the amp itself usually sounds way better and just needs a little reverb or whatever on it to flavor to taiste