V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

HyBr1d

HyBr1d

New member
I just completely retubed my TSL 60 With 4 Reissue Mullard CV4004/12ax7s for the preamp tubes and a pair of Genalex Gold Lion KT77s for the power tubes :) Did it all myself, except for the biasing of the power tubes...May not seem like much to most, but it was a big deal for me to be able to accomplish it on my own without destroying anything!!

Now, I have zero issue with how it sounds, I really do like it...But I’ve read of the wonders of playing around with different v1 tubes, as they supposedly have the greatest impact on the tone of the amp...? First off, is that a correct supposition? Secondly, I’ve become more of a pedal user than amp distortion, so I’m normally using the clean channel nowadays. I did try the lead channel and it sounds awesome, I used to always have the bass and treble dimed and the mids completely scooped...Now it sounds pretty cool with the bass at noon, mids at 9-10 o’clock, but still have the treble all the way up(along with the presence.

Has anyone tried just changing out the v1 tube and what kind of results have you had? I’m not in any dire need of a fix, as I do really like how the amp sounds...Was just wondering if there was a “magic tube” that would positively effect the clean channel in taking pedals(guess some clean headroom/volume) yet still really Drive the Lead channel with possibly a bit more treble...Like what is the treble at “10” now would be at Like “7-8” afterwards? I’m probably just grasping at straws, but was just thinking about getting one high gain tested Genalex Gold Lion 12ax7 to throw in v1 just to see if it could maybe make a positive impact on and already great sounding amp!(since after the mods, was meh before since I had it since like 2000 and never had any kind of service done!)

Thanks for any suggestions/guidance...and I don’t know, if it would make things absolutely amazing, I could be tempted to try to find a nos 12ax7, but I’d limit the spending to $150 or under...which could be doable because it’d just be 1 Tube... Thanks again!
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

read up on the 5751. I'm gonna try one in place of my rca12au7. I'll be amazed if works better.
 
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Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

The Mullard RI is one of my favorite 12AX7s for gain positions, especially in a Marshall. If you like them but want more treble, try a Tung-Sol RI. They sound very similar, except the Tung-Sol is brighter.

JJs tend to be darker, and a little muddy, but I like them for buffer positions because they're sturdy (buffer tubes have little to no effect on tone). But I love them for the phase inverter, partially because of their sturdiness, but more importantly, they are a little ganier, and add a little more growl when you get the poweramp to distort.

Groove Tubes? Meh.

EHX? Decent, but very thin sounding. But good for a muddy amp.

Sovtek? Meh.

Chinese? Ok, but I've burnt up a few.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Here's one to try. It's a clone (not just the name) of a 60s Mullard.

http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/goldlion-12ax7-std.html

(I'm just pasting this link to provide a photo.)

Another good one to try is a NOS RFT. Tested good almost new old stock ANOS is good way to sample old stock tubes for somewhat less cost.

I like current production Chinese 12AX7s in Marshalls at v1 actually. They open up the mids nicely for a less compressed sound with out being harsh.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

With CV4004s you have already the real deal in your Marshall. Same findings as Lake Placid here. I use a Mullard in V1 and a RFT in v2, since the Mullard is more refined 60ies Marshall while the RFT is more the ratty 70/80ies sound. So the combo is my fave. These recent Chinese have a lot of drive, you get you an extra bit of oomph, if you like that. But i had to try about 10 different examples to get a right one, that were quite a time my V2. (Don't laugh but this specific Chinese 12ax7 was Mesa Boogie rebranded - yes i ran my Marshall with a Mesa tube :lmao: )
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Thanks so much for all the suggestions already everybody! I went with the CV4004’s Since from what I read it had a pretty low noise floor, which I’d say is pretty true! It’s not super buzzy or anything! What’s crazy is that the tubes I pulled out read ei Yugoslavia...aren’t there some of those that are considered nos and really expensive? This was a very early head, I know I had it in 2000, possibly 1999, so a very early tsl60...

https://youtu.be/VTq-8RhUVyE

Just did a quick demo of the clean channel, clean channel with a Pigdog JuJu, and then the Lead channel. Pardon the sloppy playing, was just doing some quick stuff :)

Anyone with any experience with the Gold Lion 12ax7s? I’ve thought of 5751’s, but I’m really not trying to lower the overall volume of the amp, because I do like the sound of the Lead channel! Though some extra volume out of the clean channel could be nice, as long as it doesn’t cause really early breakup. I think the CV4004s are pretty darn good, I wonder if just changing a v1 tube will dramatically change the entire amps character...Or is there another preamp Tube I should consider changing? Like what are the purposes of the other tubes? Sorry, I’m sure there must be another thread about this, but I’d like to try to stay with the tsl60 amp And anyone who’s experimented with specific valve changes on this amp!
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Changing V1 can make a huge difference in the sound of an amp. I found an International-branded Mullard 10M 12AX7 from the 1970s and it makes my Marshall JCM900 sound like famous albums. Switch it for a cheap Sovtek and it just sounds like fizz.

There are other threads I've read on here where changing the PI tube affects how hard you are hitting your power tubes which changes the sound also - I do not have experience trying that, so others will have to speak to what affect changing other tube positions really has.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Thanks again for the responses! I was planning on picking up one of the Gold Lions, heck I’ve got the Gold Lion power tubes, may as well try one out! And if for some reason I don’t like it in v1, can always just put the old one back in! And I’m really just splitting hairs here...There’s nothing that I don’t actually like, it’s just I know there are a bunch of different 12ax7s out there, so why not give it a try! I doubt since I’d be going for more premium tubes that the amp would sound worse! Anyone think there’s any merit in trying an ei in v1? It was a Svetlana in v1 that I took out(what was under the silver cover/shield, the 3 others were ei’s. Anyways, think I’m going to get 1 Gold Lion, And Maybe 1 nos tube and just see how it goes! I’ll let you know if the amp suddenly becomes “3 dimensional and transcendent!” Lolor if it turns it into crap! Can’t hurt, I I don’t like it, just put the old(well new ri CV4004) tube back in the slot. Just got a Supro Coronado, so with the amount of clean headroom that puts out, I don’t think I need to go for less volume and/or gain...I think that a Gold Lion will make it scream in a great way! Guess it all depends on if taking a chance on a NOS leads to something even better! Just glad to have what was a tired amp woken up! Now if only I could fix the 5 button footswitch without needing to pay $100��
Many Thanks,
Jim
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

If you want to go Mad Scientist, I recommend the 12AX7 Tube Sampler.

Compared to my Mullard 10M, the best sounding in my Marshall JCM900 V1 and Emery Sound SuperBaby, in order were:
TAD 12AX7-PS (sounded exactly like an original UK Mullard)
JJ ECC803 (sounded very close to an original UK Mullard)
Ruby 12AX7A-C5
Vokshod 12AX7A (my set had this instead of the TungSol reissue)
Groove Tubes 12AX7-C
JJ ECC83
Mullard 12AX7A
---------------- things got harsh and fizzy right about here...
EH 12AX7-EH
Sovtek 12AX7WA
China 12AX7B
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Gone_Shootin said:
The Mullard RI is one of my favorite 12AX7s for gain positions, especially in a Marshall. If you like them but want more treble, try a Tung-Sol RI. They sound very similar, except the Tung-Sol is brighter.

JJs tend to be darker, and a little muddy, but I like them for buffer positions because they're sturdy (buffer tubes have little to no effect on tone). But I love them for the phase inverter, partially because of their sturdiness, but more importantly, they are a little ganier, and add a little more growl when you get the poweramp to distort.

Groove Tubes? Meh.

EHX? Decent, but very thin sounding. But good for a muddy amp.

Sovtek? Meh.

Chinese? Ok, but I've burnt up a few.
Click to expand...

+1 on this post. Except I’ll say that I really like the Sovtek LPS in both the phase inverter position and in the clean channel position in my Splawn.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

saxmo said:
read up on the 5751. I'm gonna try one in place of my rca12au7. I'll be amazed if works better.
Click to expand...

That's a big jump in "gain" if the 12AU7 is working for you now.

Amplification factor:
12AX7 = 100
5751 = 70
12AU7 = 20
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Well, I ended up purchasing a Genalex like suggested(the made in Russia version of course) And also took a chance and got a nos Mullard CV4004/12ax7...So I’m planning on trying the Mullard in v1 first, and hoping that it’s perfect! Then I could just put the Gold Lion in v2 or v3....Does anyone think it’d make a difference as to where it should go? And if I don’t like the Mullard in v1 I’ll try the Genalex there....Either way, something will end up sounding great, just depends on which goes where! At least since it’s just one NOS tube, I’m not out a ton of money, and I’m staying positive and weighing the upsides of the situation!! When I chose the NOS Mullard, I chose one with as close to “matching” gains and test numbers...Hope I did the right thing and it has some magic!!
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

You will love the Mullard in the first slot. You will see that the second and the third (PI) only does the icing on the cake. Recovery stages after the tone stack. The PI hits the output tubes, and a bigger volume drives them better. If you ever have a microphonic or higher noise Mullard, do not dump it, you can everything with quite reasonable matched stages in the PI.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Definitely will, Lake Placid Blues! I’ll make another vid like I did in the original post...Though I’ll see if I can embed the first one in this post. Then an easy listen for an A/B...and possibly C..Think I may just try the Gold Lion first out of curiosity...Take a vid of clean play, clean channel plus fuzz and then the lead channel! Does anyone know what the functions of v2 and v3 are for this specific amp? Like does v2 contribute to the eq setting? Sorry as a novice to changing tubes, all I lnow is v1 gives the most pronounced difference in tone! Like if I love the NOS Mullard in v1, would it be better to put the Gold Lion in v2 or3? And just a side note, I’ve read that v4, the phase inverter can b important too for tone? I dont know a lot of specifics as to why...But since I’ve already got 12ax7s in all positions, should I maybe put the Genalex in v4? Sorry, full of questions cuz it’s quite confusing as to what does what other than v1!

There, that’s the amp with the reissue CV4004/12ax7s. Clean first, clean channel w/ the Pigdog JuJu and lastly the lead channel. Pardon the sloppy play, I’ll focus more on the next vid when the new tubes come! And I’ll use the same guitar to start, though I’ll also use my Tele after going through the same clean, clean plus pedal and lead...Maybe get a better idea of the tone with the Tele, especially the neck and in between settings...Should I do the pedals and lead with the Tele too? Could do it if it’d be helpful for you or anyone!
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Thanks for the info, hamerfan! I’m hoping I Love the Mullard in v1 too, guess I’ll Just experiment with where to put the Gold Lion and hear what sounds best! This is my first time mixing tubes(lol right after my first time changing tubes) so I’m interested in if I’ll hear that much of a difference! Thank you for the encouraging words!
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

HyBr1d said:
Now if only I could fix the 5 button footswitch without needing to pay $100��
Many Thanks,
Jim
Click to expand...

I had a TSL100. The plastic grommet where the cable passes through the sheet metal of the footswitch chassis was too tight. Over time, it wore on the individual conductors inside the wire so that two of them no longer conducted. I desoldered the whole thing from the circuit board, cut off the bad part, resoldered, then trimmed down the plastic grommet enough so that it wouldn't crush the cable but would still hold it in place. I think I used a round file for that.

You might have that same issue, maybe not.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

hamerfan said:
You will love the Mullard in the first slot. You will see that the second and the third (PI) only does the icing on the cake. Recovery stages after the tone stack. The PI hits the output tubes, and a bigger volume drives them better. If you ever have a microphonic or higher noise Mullard, do not dump it, you can everything with quite reasonable matched stages in the PI.
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest this too. Iirc the op said the amp originally had Ei tubes in it? Perfect for the phase inverter.
 
Re: V1 12ax7 suggestions for Marshall TSL 60

Gtrjunior said:
+1 on this post. Except I’ll say that I really like the Sovtek LPS in both the phase inverter position and in the clean channel position in my Splawn.
Click to expand...

I found the Sovtek LPS to be too clean, sterile, and clinical. I like a raunchy sounding tube in the PI hole.
 
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