valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

[crusty philtrum]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

Who says I can't? The response comes from me, not the amp. I play my gear, my gear doesn't play me. I played SS amps for years and tube amps and had success with both.

Ah, okay ... so every different car you drive responds exactly the same because of the way you drive ?

 

[Demanic]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years after - add hybrid

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years after - add hybrid

Well, let's just say, I will drive a Lincoln as close as I can get it to a Porsche, and visa versa. Knowing that the two will never be the same.

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[BriGuy1968]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I gig with a Fender Champion 100, which is a relatively inexpensive (about $350) 2x12 solid state combo. I also have its little brother, the Champion 40 (1x12), for at home practice. They both have 2 channels: the clean channel does a pretty good imitation of a clean Twin Reverb, and then you select an amp model for channel 2 (16 choices on the 100 and 12 on the 40). They also both have onboard effects. For the most part, the amp models are pretty meh, but the clean channel has tons of headroom (especially on the 100). The one amp model I like is only on the 100, and it's of a Jazzmaster. I set the gain to 1 and it gives me a more "rumbly" clean which I like for playing clean tones... very rich sounding. I get most of my tones from my Zoom G5 (which has some great models), so only liking the clean sounds from the amp is no big deal for me.

I honestly have very little experience playing tube amps... every amp I've ever owned has been SS and I'm quite satisfied. I like that I can get a very similar tone at low volume to what I get at high volumes and, being the cheap SOB that I am, I like the price. But most importantly, I like my sound. I'm amazed at the quality of the modeled amps in the G5 (and my POD HD400) and I feel like I can achieve pretty much anything I want tone-wise (although I generally just stick to a select few which cover pretty much anything I want to play).

When it comes right down to it, I'm a modeler... so my amp is secondary for tonal consideration. When I bought the Champion 100, the only reason it won out over a powered speaker was the fact that amps have a little better "punch" IMO. Solid state works just fine for me... although I will admit to the possibility that I might just not know what I'm missing with tubes!

 

[aleclee]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I've been all-digital (suppose that counts as SS) since '09. If something else works better for you, then rock on. It's just the tool that I prefer and it works best for my purposes. YMMV and probably does.

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

Valves only for me.. Nothin against the solid states or the modeling stuff but I am old school and I like valves.

 

[TimmyPage]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I spent a full two years with a Roland Cube while living in England, it did well enough for what I wanted it to, but it definitely made me love my Traynor YCV50 Blue even more upon coming home to Canada. Being a jazz guy I have a big appreciation for solid states like the Polytone Brute or the Henrikson Jazzamp, and the new line of Roland JC40's sound brilliant (Stereo inputs!).

What I'm getting at is that solid state amps have come a far way, you can get some absolutely beautiful lush clean sounds out of them, and tube amps are the ones I look for when I want the sound of light breakup when I dig in or push it with a boost. The digital modellers I see around a lot these days (like Axefx, the new Line 6 Helix) sound absolutely amazing for high gain lead tones, but I still feel like they aren't quite there yet for the breakup sound which keeps me away.

 

[jeremy]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

there are great ss clean tones out there, do any of them sound as great as a well tuned super reverb? not to my ears. im not a high gain guy but there are lots of great high gain ss tones out there but again, are they better than a diezel, engl, bogner, mesa, soldano, or splawn? i doubt it but i dont use those tones much so ill defer to those who do. the tones i use a lot are the edge of clean through vintage nmv breakup. ive never found a ss amp that does that as well as cranking up a good tube amp well suited for the volume requirements of the gig. i have tube amps from 8w-85w so if i pick my amp properly, i shouldnt need a pedal. there is a response of guitar-cable-amp that is very tactile and even if the ss amps can get 95% of the sound, to me they are only getting 60% of the feel and thats not something i will settle for on stage.

 

[leevc5]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I have noticed that EQs work much better on tube amps than modelers. At least the EQs I have tried on my Mustang II vs 5F1 and the ancient Champ I have. The Mustang has an enormous range of sounds (unfortunately many are just noise as far as I'm concerned) but mostly I just use it with the 65 Twin that I have tweaked and tubeized. The computer interface can keep me occupied for hours (saving you all from more of my babbling here) and it is light and easy to throw in the car for a whatever.

But to the point at last. I like the tube amp tone better to start with. On top of that I can get a lot more bang out of an EQ with the tubes which results in a new tone dimension where no modeler has gone before. (Star Trek theme playing in the background)

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

Another type of hybrid amp has been successful in recent years: The Orange micros. These are not modelling amps, but use a simple tube pre amp and Class D SS power amp. These sound pretty good. The regular (non Dark) Micro Terror is pretty good at those just breaking up crunch tones when ran through greenbacks.

However, as good as modelers have become and as good as the Orange micros sound, I'm with the tube purists for the most part. Give me a good EL34 powered all tube amp if I can only have one amp.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I think solid state has come a long way. Companies like Matrix and Roland has been putting out some interesting stuff, and I like the idea of a light weight easily transportable rig, BUT so far I haven't found anything to drag me away from my Fender Tweeds or JTM45.

 

[leevc5]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I think it's going to be interesting to hear what the Marshall CODE series sounds like out in the field. Marshall has been playing leap frog with Fender for fifty plus years and I expect these CODE amps are going to be a step above the Mustangs which are excellent amps.

 

[Gunslinger_505]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

IMO, the biggest problem for the modelling amp now is how they're sold. You go into a store to play one, it's not tied to a computer making it hard to see what all it can do, therefore you're stuck with the presets which tend to be over the top. I suppose the good part about these built in presets is you can step through them and see the potential of each amp and all the different effects. The downside is if you're plugged into one in the store it's hard to tell what's involved with each setting and what tweaks you can make, and a lot of the presets are overkill. They really need full demo's with a computer in the store.

Last night I had a jam session and the other guitar player, who had no idea I was playing through a modeling amp, looked at my Fender dumbfounded and comments that is sounds just like his Marshall (he was playing through one of my other amps). This from a guy who's a GIT grad who lives in a place with a lot of entertainment and goes to auditions and gets hired. As I showed him around the amp he would correct me on what kind of amp I was playing through... The only downside in his eyes is that you really need to have it hooked to a computer and spend time with it to get the sound you want.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

IMO, the biggest problem for the modelling amp now is how they're sold. You go into a store to play one, it's not tied to a computer making it hard to see what all it can do, therefore you're stuck with the presets which tend to be over the top. I suppose the good part about these built in presets is you can step through them and see the potential of each amp and all the different effects. The downside is if you're plugged into one in the store it's hard to tell what's involved with each setting and what tweaks you can make, and a lot of the presets are overkill. They really need full demo's with a computer in the store.

Last night I had a jam session and the other guitar player, who had no idea I was playing through a modeling amp, looked at my Fender dumbfounded and comments that is sounds just like his Marshall (he was playing through one of my other amps). This from a guy who's a GIT grad who lives in a place with a lot of entertainment and goes to auditions and gets hired. As I showed him around the amp he would correct me on what kind of amp I was playing through... The only downside in his eyes is that you really need to have it hooked to a computer and spend time with it to get the sound you want.

Was just having a similar conversation to this one with the other guitarist in my band last night. He's more of a "I like having a knob that I can twist" guy, but he also is open-minded enough to realize that I (as a modeler) am getting a pretty good tone as well, and that I have a lot of options available to me. I really just stick to a couple patches, and they've taken me several accumulated hours of computer/experimenting time to get them dialed in, but IMO it's been time well spent as I have a very user-friendly setup now for my rig. He was saying that his problem is that he lacks the patience to sit in front of the computer and fiddle with it, so he's not so sure it would work for him.

Which brings us around to your comment about presets being over-the-top... which I agree with 100%. It's like the presets are designed as demos to the inexperienced player to show the full extent of the unit, but experienced players are many times looking for that subtle nuance that makes just the right amount of difference... we already know that we can crank up various aspects of the sound to get something crazy!

Having a computer demo set up with it would be a great way to fix that problem along with giving a better look at the available features. :fing2:


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[ehdwuld]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

Well if you take a Marshall stack to a gig you get that sound
If you want a Fender sound your out of luck unless you also have one of those

A modeling amp allows you to set up several sweet rigs and tote only one in

No one in the audience will notice what your playing through
Its either good or it sux
That's all they know

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

Factory presets suck. The idea of a modeler to me, is to select a model and then twist the knobs until it sounds like something I'd use. After doing that with all the models, I can choose to use the ones that fit my style best, save them and forget the factory programed junk.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

What I'm getting at is that solid state amps have come a far way, you can get some absolutely beautiful lush clean sounds out of them, and tube amps are the ones I look for when I want the sound of light breakup when I dig in or push it with a boost. The digital modellers I see around a lot these days (like Axefx, the new Line 6 Helix) sound absolutely amazing for high gain lead tones, but I still feel like they aren't quite there yet for the breakup sound which keeps me away.

That is why I got into the hybrid thing, I really like the edge of breakup sound with the guitar volume down, I can dig in and hear the response of the amp and then crank the guitar volume for a good crunch. And no need to swap or bias power tubes.

Some people may forget that even when tube amps may be abundant and affordable in some countries, tube amps can be very hard to find and crazy expensive in some other. For example there was absolutely no amp technician I could find here, if I ever want a tube amp I boy from a dealer here I need tp take it back to the dealer and wait for weeks just for power tube swap and bias, and the service is so expensive. And the amps are so expensive too. To me having a tube based preamp and a SS power amp was the best best compromise and I am enjoying the tones I get a lot.

 

[HiFiRebel]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I have a Blackface Fender that is amazing. The first time I played it, I knew I had found the amp for me. Now I live in a small condo, and in that vein of valuing my marriage and relationships with people I share walls with, I now have a Orange Micro Terror. I still prefer my Fender, but that Orange is amazing.

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- 10 years later - add hybrid

I've played tube, analog solid state,bdigital solid state and hybrid amps.

I'd use hybrids again if I had the right amount of power as long as it was a tube pre. I've tried to entertain pure SS, and just can't find one in my budget that's worth it. Digital... Depends... Vox's digital Amps seem ok. I hear good things about the Marshall Code series and Fender Mustang series; but generally, I prefer tubes. I try out the solid state stuff when I am amp shopping, but ever since my first tube amp, I have not found a SS amp that gets the sound I like.

 

[Gold star]

I searched and was unable to find any polls on solid state vs. tube newer than 9+ years ago. If I missed something let me know and I will delete this thread.

If it has been 9+ years I think it's time to take another look. Solid state amps have made great strides in that time and the offering of tube amps has grown significantly as well.

My first choice is the vintage tube amp. I love the warm tone a husky natural overdrive as you crank it up. However, I am not as rock solid sold on tubes now as I once was. I have added a Fender Mustang II to my collection and have to admit I probably spend more time with it than the tube amp because of the convenience the computer interface it offers.

There is another element here that gets overlooked or not understood. Many 'all tube amps' are in fact a hybrid of tube and SS. This is why the tones or feel between SS and tube are now so close. Digital Reverb, digital tremolo, the first stage gain on many tube amps inc. Marshall & Vox -especially at the cheaper end is done via a MOSFET. However listen to genuine all tube, point to point wired amps like Tone King and boutique brands like Henry and you will get a different feel than all the rest. Of course, such things don't come cheap

 

[jeremy]

most of my tube amps are vintage or clones of vintage gear, so i get what you are saying. that said, mosfets can sound amazing in the right circuit