valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

[skyydogg01]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

k, i'm gonna throw a monkey in the wrench and say transistor. I say this for the simple fact that I get MY sound out of it and it does what I want it to do. I had a blues junior and it did sound nice, but to get the tone that I wanted, I had to hit it with a solid state pedal anyway. I didn't see the point.

maybe one day, I can afford a mesa/marshall/bogner/whatever and get the tone that I want but for now, my crate is fine.

 

[EveryMn]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

k, i'm gonna throw a monkey in the wrench and say transistor. I say this for the simple fact that I get MY sound out of it and it does what I want it to do. I had a blues junior and it did sound nice, but to get the tone that I wanted, I had to hit it with a solid state pedal anyway. I didn't see the point.

maybe one day, I can afford a mesa/marshall/bogner/whatever and get the tone that I want but for now, my crate is fine.

May I suggest visiting a psychiatrist sometime in the near future?:lmao:

 

[rashayritto]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

i voted tube vintage because i love cranking the clean channel. However, SS has come a very long way. I'm certain modeling technology could easily replicate the "liveness" of tubes (how they react to the player and such). When solid states figure out how to perfectly simulate tubes (minus the hassles) then i'll definitely go that way.

imagine amps where you can access different tube models and power ratings from a menu and get a spot on sounds!

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I picked solidstate because I play only using my bridge pickup for distorted kinda music, so I can get away with just using tube emulation. Think about the money I save! LOL :laughing:

 

[wahwah]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I'm certain modeling technology could easily replicate the "liveness" of tubes (how they react to the player and such). When solid states figure out how to perfectly simulate tubes (minus the hassles) then i'll definitely go that way.

imagine amps where you can access different tube models and power ratings from a menu and get a spot on sounds!

That's what every modelling amp and plug-in claims it can already do, and none of them are truly close. The very best amp sim I've heard is the ReValver MkII software plug-in from Alien Connections, and even then you mess with it for two hours and then play through a good tube amp and realize that you've just wasted two hours. If modelling technology could "easily replicate the "liveness" of tubes," don't you think they would have done it by now? There's been no shortage of attempts in the last few years. I wouldn't be so sure that the technology will ever truly succeed. That's like saying that technology will be able to replicate an L series Strat. It can't.


Cheers......................wahwah

 

[Mincer]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

dunno- i use a vintage rig for some gigs, and a modeling rig for others. there are too many tube amps that sound terribe too- so generally i listen, before i consider what technology makes the sound.

this poll, i am guessing, has to do with making more or less 'standard' guitar sounds, too. for the weird ones, i'd take ss anyday.

 

[D-EJ915]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I played some Nile with my baritone through a bassman before, those vintagey amps just don't do it for me. :fingersx:

"modern" tube amps ftw, good solidstate heads are the ****, too.

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

Yeah, a real battle...

I guess we should get a few more voters to vote for tube amps. They might loose...

 

[ginormous]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

Geoff, your points are valid. For the home/bedroom/demo, however, a good (note emphasis) emulator amp or software patch can be useful; this is from one who had an Ampeg VT-22 (the twin 12" version of the V4) from his teens through his 30s. A warrior, a trouper through and through, except when it quit... on stage... in the middle of a gig. I had to use a Hughes & Kettner direct box through the PA.

Admittedly, that crash may be coloring my point of view. I freely admit that tubes are the defining sound for the electric guitar, and have been for decades. However, I am among the class of musicians that don't have a lot of working capital to invest in gear, so I have to make my choices wisely. It's important for me and many others to get stuff that works, without fail.

Would I get my fave boutique amp if I could? Hell yeah! However, do I need a good-sounding amp that consistently performs, and gives my the best return on my investment? No question.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I'm just a proponent of buying whatever tools you need to suit yourself to your situations. And then a bit more, just for good measure! LOL

 

[James Rock]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I reckon modelling still sounds very wannabe and not quite there. I went to a guitar show about a year ago i played through the line 6 stuff for hours which was fun but then i went and played a fender jazzmaster into a twin 15 and that killed the line 6 tone then i tried a les paul and orange and it sung with beauty. The tube amps i prefer are new vintage inspired to modern amps like bad cat, matchless or more vintagy laneys (VC30) or mesa's (Lonestar Special)

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I'm a tube kinda guy, although I almost bought a Line 6 Flextone instead of my present rig. I'd probably have been real happy with as well. Our other guitarist has one and most of the time I don't think I could tell you which one was Tube or SS.
Then we did some recording and all became clear.
And these are very similar priced rigs as well.

 

[wahwah]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

Geoff, your points are valid. For the home/bedroom/demo, however, a good (note emphasis) emulator amp or software patch can be useful; this is from one who had an Ampeg VT-22 (the twin 12" version of the V4) from his teens through his 30s. A warrior, a trouper through and through, except when it quit... on stage... in the middle of a gig. I had to use a Hughes & Kettner direct box through the PA.

Admittedly, that crash may be coloring my point of view. I freely admit that tubes are the defining sound for the electric guitar, and have been for decades. However, I am among the class of musicians that don't have a lot of working capital to invest in gear, so I have to make my choices wisely. It's important for me and many others to get stuff that works, without fail.

Would I get my fave boutique amp if I could? Hell yeah! However, do I need a good-sounding amp that consistently performs, and gives my the best return on my investment? No question.

Agreed that there are many situations where modelling technology can be very useful. I've sometimes used Guitar Rig 2 for some of its wacky effects presets, to come up with sounds that I would never even think to use otherwise. Amp sim plug-ins can also be very handy when there are limitations on volume, space or access to recording equipment, particularly for demos and as writing tools or sketch pad recordings. I've messed around quite a lot with Amplitube, Guitar Rig 1 & 2 and ReValver MkII, and whilst the latter easily beats the other two for a basic foundation, it still doesn't sit in a mix with authority like my Super Champ with a Beta 57 in its face. But I don't think anyone is really arguing that point. I haven't heard anyone attempting to support an argument that good modelling amps sound better than good tube amps. That would be a very difficult argument to sustain.

On the reliability issue, I can understand why your experience with the amp dying would have made you wary, any form of equipment failure is disconcerting when it happens at a critical moment. Most of my work is interstate from where I live (Australia is a very big country!) and about 30 weekends per year, I have to fly somewhere and I choose to take my rig over hiring random amps in each state. I've learnt the hard way to remove my power tubes before putting the amp on a plane, and to always carry spares of everything I might need. For me, that's a minor consideration when I consider the benefits of having good tone.


Cheers.......................wahwah

 

[Rowan]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

Honestly it all depends. I saw a band tonight. One guitarist was running an SG thru a line6 solid state stack. One guitarist was running a mockingbird thru a fancy marshall tube stack but also had a metal zone in front of it. Granted, a metal zone sounds better thru a tube amp, but I still think it sounds bad. Hollow, artifical and like a buzzsaw. Where the line6 guy's distortion was full, and solos were very sweet.

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I voted modern tube, because I like gain, and I am not really impressed with stomp boxes running into the front of amps, to make up the difference for "the basic" tone. It's too easy (?) to spend $1,000 on o/d and dist pedals, when all someone needed was an amp with the gain on tap in the first place.

 

[Fender_Punk]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I voted tube amp vintage, but really it's a tie with me for tube vintage and tube modern. I hate SS, I need to get rid of my POS Fender SS amp and get a Bassman, Nomad, Celtic or a JVM.

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I voted for modern tube amps, because as good as vintage tube amps are I desire more gain and versatility when needed. IMO its easier to roll off the volume on a guitar to clean the sound up on a high gain modern tube amp then it is to put an OD pedal in front of a vintage tube amp to get more distortion without sounding horrible, but maybe I just haven't tried enough OD pedals.

 

[Fender_Punk]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I don't really think it's a totally fair comparison. They continue to be sort of apples and oranges. They both have things they do better than the other. Tubes don't make great bedroom jammers. And they are certainly not affordable when compared to SS. And while anything can break down over time, there is more regular maintenance and cost associated with tubes. But tone-wise tubes have a warmer, more organic feel and sound.

Tubes are like Caddy's while SS is like a Chevy. There are markets for each. A Chevy will never ride as smoothly and as comfortably as a Caddy. But that Chevy will get you to the corner store faster and cheaper than the Caddy ever will.

There's decent tube amps in the 15-40 watt range for under $500. also, you don't need as many watts to match volume for tubes. I haven't found a SS amp that can beat some of the tube amps I've tried/heard.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

Modern..
Since i play modern music ,and like more modern tones ,i don't really like to use Pedals (to drive my amp)...it's somehow killing the vibe for me..Anyways ,that's why i prefer to have a modern All-tube amp ,with enough gain to make my face melt ,with enough possibilities to let me choose what i want to do with it ,not vise versa ,and have one ore more descent fx/midi possibilities to let me be creative...

 

[aloha]

Re: valve/tube vs. solid state -- the battle continues

I have some mixed feelings...

I voted for modern tube. I mostly play a Mesa F30. I also play through a Gibson Goldtone.

As far as a pure clean sound, I think the Gibson blows doors on just about anything, but I like the added value of a onboard drive channel ala Mesa. The Mesa has a great clean and it can do this other fuzzy, warm, liquid lead thing as well.

Of course, it is this mentality that makes me someone open to the idea of SS. I've played some great SS amps in the past. Every week at practice, in fact, I play through the studio's old Randall combo. It sounds friggin great, too. Although, it does have some weird eq things going on (which I attribute to the SS).

So, I see modern tube amps as a bridge between the best of both worlds.

In the end, the manufacturer that gives me the best sound (including touch sensitivity, harmonic structure, etc.) to flexibility (multiple channel, easy maintenance, etc.) ratio gets my money.

Thanks for an interesting discussion.
Z