Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If "tone is in your fingers" then cut off your fingers & try to plug them into an amp & see what they sound like.

Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork are all about tone.

Technique/skill/playing style/talent are all about the player.

 

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I was, of course, being facetious...

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If "tone is in your fingers" then cut off your fingers & try to plug them into an amp & see what they sound like.

Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork are all about tone.

Technique/skill/playing style/talent are all about the player.

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't know why people bother learning the ins and outs and gory details of gear, really...

...let alone what various, highly influential guitar gods used to get their schweet tones...


I mean, if you have little to none gear knowledge, you should still be able to get great tone through a SS Gorilla or Crate amp, or any amp.

Gear just really doesn't matter at all (except for all those sucky guitar players who constantly fiddle with their tone).

:13:

There is learning, and there is going off the deep end. You are looking at a ton of different guys, and getting very close to capturing the nuances of their particular rigs, so it isn't about you. The VH1 tone in particular is as dead a horse as it gets in this respect. While people argue about this (and there will never be any agreement), so many of the guitarists that followed in his wake (many of whom are more interesting than Eddie in my opinion) remain largely unexplored. If people are inclined to study these things in detail, then surely the Leslie West/Vito Bratta Marshall must be of more interet now than yet another wall of text about VH1?

 

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

There is learning, and there is going off the deep end. You are looking at a ton of different guys, and getting very close to capturing the nuances of their particular rigs, so it isn't about you. The VH1 tone in particular is as dead a horse as it gets in this respect. While people argue about this (and there will never be any agreement), so many of the guitarists that followed in his wake (many of whom are more interesting than Eddie in my opinion) remain largely unexplored. If people are inclined to study these things in detail, then surely the Leslie West/Vito Bratta Marshall must be of more interet now than yet another wall of text about VH1?

It's all subjective as to, "what is allowed for discussion", really. Purely personal preference.

In actuality, one man's Ronni LeTekrø's tone quest is another man's EVH tone quest, is another man's Tom Petty tone quest... so on and so forth.

Which of the above tone quests is permissible? All of them of course, and no one has any good reason to slag someone's interest in tone-chasing (usually the ones who do, insert themselves into an area of knowledge of which they are sorely lacking).

Speaking of EVH's tone - it is the King-Daddy, the Loch Ness, the Bigfoot, the Bermuda Triangle of all tones to chase. Of all the guitar tones to chase, EVH's is by far the most discussed... period. It is the biggest mystery (well, for those who don't know studio production, what plexi's really sound like, and the circuit variations Marshall was doing in 1968). Gear manufacturer's recognize this as well. EVH's 1st album tone is a pinnacle that many try to achieve (yet fail miserably). It's all the byproduct of Ed being such a huge influence... yuuuuuuge influence. It just is, and will be until guitars and amps and rock and roll fade into the obscurity of history (we're already starting down this path).

 

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is in the Amps/cabs/speakers/tubes/FX/tone woods/strings/pickups/fretwork plug your guitar in, turn the amp on as high as it goes and and let it do your next gig.

If tone is purely in the fingers, then every good pianist would have their very own unique piano tone.

Every good violinist would have their very own unique violin tone.

etc...

But they don't.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

If tone is purely in the fingers, then every good pianist would have their very own unique piano tone.

Every good violinist would have their very own unique violin tone.

etc...

But they don't.

You need to hang out with more piano players. Two different people can coax very different sounds out of the same instrument based on their touch and feel.



But I never said that 'tone' (whatever that is) is purely in the fingers. Of course the guitar, amp, pedals, etc. contribute to how things sound. I'd just argue that if you can play Van Halen's licks perfectly the choice of gear isn't super important. It sounds like me whether I'm borrowing an amp or playing my own. Or even when I'm banging away on an acoustic.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Speaking of EVH's tone - it is the King-Daddy, the Loch Ness, the Bigfoot, the Bermuda Triangle of all tones to chase. Of all the guitar tones to chase, EVH's is by far the most discussed... period.

Yes, and that is the heartrending thing about it. EVH unleashed a golden age of rock guitar, which is bigger than any single guitarist. Yet people keep dissecting the VH1 tone, whilst so many others languish in almost total obscurity. I have argued elsewhere that Eddie (and to a lesser extent Randy) are so big that they are actually obstacles when trying to understand their own scene, and this is nowhere more obvious than in tone discussions.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

It seems to me that a lot of the controversy around the validity of tone searching as a concept comes from simple miscommunication. We are all guilty from time to time of hoping that a new gadget is going to make us sound like a particular guitarist (which very rarely happens). There is a smaller contingent who truly believes that "tone is in the fingers", and that this is an insight that shuts down any discussion of gear. Those people are fools.

The truth is surprisingly empowering: a lot of what we call tone is in the fingers, but this is really a combination of aspects (force, timing and pitch fluctuation probably being the three most important ones) that to a large extent can be emulated. This shouldn't be too hard for anybody to accept, and I suspect that a lot of disagreement would vanish if we did.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I still want to know what Pittbull's rig looks like...

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't know why people bother learning the ins and outs and gory details of gear, really...

...let alone what various, highly influential guitar gods used to get their schweet tones...


I mean, if you have little to none gear knowledge, you should still be able to get great tone through a SS Gorilla or Crate amp, or any amp.

Gear just really doesn't matter at all (except for all those sucky guitar players who constantly fiddle with their tone).

:13:

Sure gear matters, I get it.

My point is deciphering tube amp tone from a classic album after it has been processed a dozen times by other pro gear and occupies 1/16 or a 1/24th or maybe 1/48th of the original bandwidth is an exercise in futility for almost everyone.

Need to hear it in person to really get the subtle gear tweaks an artist may be pulling off from the amp without all the other production and post production involved

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Yes, and that is the heartrending thing about it. EVH unleashed a golden age of rock guitar, which is bigger than any single guitarist. Yet people keep dissecting the VH1 tone, whilst so many others languish in almost total obscurity. I have argued elsewhere that Eddie (and to a lesser extent Randy) are so big that they are actually obstacles when trying to understand their own scene, and this is nowhere more obvious than in tone discussions.

Unfortunately that "golden age" "unleashed" in late 1970's was killed in a Genocide by the invasive "Flannel Species" in 1990. And many middle aged boomers didn't get the memo & seem to chase the "cock rock" tone like the Ghost of Kubla Khan trying to relive getting "stink finger" under the bleachers after smoking their first joint in 1978 whilst listening to "running with the devil".

Ed's contribution in re-writing Rock Guitar is well noted & admired but to be honest once you've heard one EVH solo you've heard them all and the Van Hagar years were a song writing abomination IMO.

Also ive never felt the need to buy any of Ed's sub-par cheesy 3rd world manufactured trinkets.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Unfortunately that "golden age" "unleashed" in late 1970's was killed in a Genocide byt the invasive "Flannel Speices". However many middle aged boomers didn't get the memo & seem to chase the "cock rock" tone like the Ghost of Kubla Khan.

Indeed, and we are still reeling in the backwater of the grunge era. A partial revaluation of the era as such is forthcoming, if slowly. As far as tones go, I just think we all (they included) are missing out by focusing so squarely on the VH1 tone.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Indeed, and we are still reeling in the backwater of the grunge era. A partial revaluation of the era as such is forthcoming, if slowly. As far as tones go, I just think we all (they included) are missing out by focusing so squarely on the VH1 tone.

Yeah and chasing the VH1 phenomena didn't happen until the internet mostly by people who born after 1985.



I'll take a stock MESA Dual Rectfier over any VH tone from any VH album anyday.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Yeah and chasing the VH1 phenomena didn't happen until the internet mostly by people who born after 1985.



I'll take a stock MESA Dual Rectfier over any VH tone from any VH album anyday.

Actually, when I first played a dual rectifier for the first time, it was the most identical to a ‘68 Plexi on full is ever heard, to this day.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

Actually, when I first played a dual rectifier for the first time, it was the most identical to a ‘68 Plexi on full is ever heard, to this day.

It certainly can be. Extremely versatile. Most people confuse the Rectfier series as a "Nickleback" type one trick pony. Hardly the case.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't know why people bother learning the ins and outs and gory details of gear, really...

...let alone what various, highly influential guitar gods used to get their schweet tones...


I mean, if you have little to none gear knowledge, you should still be able to get great tone through a SS Gorilla or Crate amp, or any amp.

Gear just really doesn't matter at all (except for all those sucky guitar players who constantly fiddle with their tone).

:13:

I don't think anyone's saying that (or at least hope not). Okay, here's a weird thing about me. I see sound, especially guitar sound. When I hear it, I will really strongly see whatever colour it sounds like in my head. Orange, green, purple etc. Sometimes it's how I pick tones for certain songs. I wouldn't pick a "green" tone for an "orange" song for example. I'm about serving the song and being appropriate for the kind of music and what it's trying to say. In that sense, tone definitely matters. I just don't get hung up on the "best" tone because there's really no such thing as it's subjective and I'd hate to live in a world where every rock song only had one tone because it was "the best one." Also, seriously? Noone saw my last post and has nothing to say about DLR's crazy slide whistle?

 

[Nsatke81]

Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't think anyone's saying that (or at least hope not). Okay, here's a weird thing about me. I see sound, especially guitar sound. When I hear it, I will really strongly see whatever colour it sounds like in my head. Orange, green, purple etc. Sometimes it's how I pick tones for certain songs. I wouldn't pick a "green" tone for an "orange" song for example. I'm about serving the song and being appropriate for the kind of music and what it's trying to say. In that sense, tone definitely matters. I just don't get hung up on the "best" tone because there's really no such thing as it's subjective and I'd hate to live in a world where every rock song only had one tone because it was "the best one." Also, seriously? Noone saw my last post and has nothing to say about DLR's crazy slide whistle?

Dude, do you have synesthesia too?

Slide whistle makes the song. It’s funny. By separating the tracks on classic albums sometimes you realize there’s all this ear candy you never would guess.

I once worked at a store where we could only listen to music in mono. Somehow when they built the store, something was screwy. Anyway, listening to the Beatles was a surrealistic experience. There were accordions and cowbells and all kinds of crazy stuff. Fun times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Van Halen 1 Sound(First Album)Power Tubes

I don't think anyone's saying that (or at least hope not). Okay, here's a weird thing about me. I see sound, especially guitar sound. When I hear it, I will really strongly see whatever colour it sounds like in my head. Orange, green, purple etc. Sometimes it's how I pick tones for certain songs. I wouldn't pick a "green" tone for an "orange" song for example. I'm about serving the song and being appropriate for the kind of music and what it's trying to say. In that sense, tone definitely matters. I just don't get hung up on the "best" tone because there's really no such thing as it's subjective and I'd hate to live in a world where every rock song only had one tone because it was "the best one." Also, seriously? Noone saw my last post and has nothing to say about DLR's crazy slide whistle?

I have this. Every note/key has a color. And the tone has a shape.