Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

[Wdkwang]

Hi All,

I’ve making this post to clarify on specifics about 2 EVH pickup tones that I haven’t found a definitive answer on in the endless articles and threads I’ve read. I’m planning to make a Frankenstrat using a hard ash body and birdseye maple neck. I’m trying to get the ’78 VH1 tone as authentic as possible, but with a Floyd Rose.

I don’t want the ’84 as it sounds a little calm for me. I want that ’78 rawness. I get that Eddie originally had a Strat trem with VH1/VH2 but I much prefer having an FR. My decision has finally come down to choosing between the SD ’78 or EVH Frankenstein pup, however, I’ve read so many different opinions that I haven’t been able to decide.

The following are some of those opinions:
1. SD ’78 + Strat trem = Perfect VH1 tone
2. SD ’78 + Floyd rose = sounds too thin with FR block since the ’78 doesn’t have enough output to compensate
3. EVH Frankenstein = ’84 tone, but may be a better fit with the FR because it has the higher output to compensate for the FR’s thinned tone

The tones that really I love:
1. Ain’t talkin bout love – the famous intro riff. Mega thick, heavy, and raw (no pun intended)
2. Unchained – intro riff with that massive chugging
3. Runnin with the devil
4. Eruption – goes without saying

If anyone who has experience playing a hard ash strat with a Floyd on both the SD ’78 and EVH Frankenstein pups, I’d appreciate it. Also welcome any audio/video clips if available. I’ve listened to other renditions of the VH1 tone, all sounding close but wasn’t quite it compared to the two I’ve mentioned. Thanks all.

 

[51501984]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Welcome to the forums . You don`t make any mention of the amp and speakers your gonna be using which is most important along with being able to play like Ed . Another thing to remember is half of VH1 was recorded with an Ibanez Destroyer . This guy who unfortunatley is no longer with us did it with a Super Distortion.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Gee someone trying to cop VH tones on the internet who would thought ...


Its my understanding that the pup in the Black n White Strat [the first one] was a 50's Gibson PAF out of a 335 that was hand-overwound by Seymour Duncan himself.

I have heard no stories that contradict this info.

 

[RedDeansNRice]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Does overwound affect the tone of the pickup? I have read that more windings on a pickup make it hotter. Does that mean louder?

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Gee someone trying to cop VH tones on the internet who would thought ...


Its my understanding that the pup in the Black n White Strat [the first one] was a 50's Gibson PAF out of a 335 that was hand-overwound by Seymour Duncan himself.

I have heard no stories that contradict this info.

The contradiction or more so the inconsistency comes with the actual time line involved, which would place the encounter with Duncan after the first album was recorded. The special duncun was more than likely the pickup used on VHII.

A lot of the songs on the first album were cut with the (I believe Sen body) Ibanez destroyer. With the pickups being either a mighty might super clone, or an Ibanez super 70. You can also hear on the isolated tracks it sounds like he steps on some sort of gain boost during some of the passages. But again if you don’t have ALL the gear including the studio conditions, Ed’s hands, and ted templeton, your not getting that sound with just a pickup.

Honestly there’s is no point in chasing this sound. Eddie himself didn’t try too hard to recreate it, and a lot of it is studio magic. You also hear first hand dialog from Michael Anthony stating that it sounded absolutely horrid in person if you were in the room with it during those sessions, and it was mostly the studio sheen that shaped it. To me it’s funny that this still keeps on popping up.

I much preferred the 1984 sound. Although I can’t say I’m much of an evh nut.

 

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

The following are some of those opinions:
1. SD ’78 + Strat trem = Perfect VH1 tone
2. SD ’78 + Floyd rose = sounds too thin with FR block since the ’78 doesn’t have enough output to compensate
3. EVH Frankenstein = ’84 tone, but may be a better fit with the FR because it has the higher output to compensate for the FR’s thinned tone

1,2,3 = no, no and no.

Seems the standard canned gear forum answer to "I want VH1 tone" is "get a SD '78" because everybody else online parrots it. But if you take notice, none of those who make that suggestion ever offer evidence that it works (typical forum talking BS). Or, they post some crap that sounds nothing like the album tone - but claim it does, because they're tone deaf :lol:. Furthermore, seems none of these ya-hoos pay any attention to the fact that VH1 was recorded around August 30, September 1977. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen_(album) Kind of difficult to get a tone made in '77 with a pickup that was designed in '78...?

VH1 = SH-5 Custom
VH2 = SD '78
1984 = SH-11 Custom Custom

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Does overwound affect the tone of the pickup? I have read that more windings on a pickup make it hotter. Does that mean louder?

There is an Art to winding a pickup. In 78' practically nobody else did that.

Ive seen the ads in the back of Guitar Player Magazine where Seymour was selling his pickups in the 70's.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Your amp choice will make the difference, so don't stress too hard on the pickup. Pete Thorn gets a very convincing VH tone using a DiMarzio Super Distortion.

 

[RedDeansNRice]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

So what amp would be good that doesn't cost $500? I thought that guitar was just memorizing finger movement at first. It is not.

 

[Wattage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

The '78 does a pretty damn good job at VH tone IME in fact I had a hard time getting it to do anything else lol.

I think the Super 70's get you there as well but maybe aren't so one-trick as the '78 seemed to me.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Variac

 

[LLL]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Clips? Gotta have clips to back up claims...

Some clips of myself utilizing an early 80's SH-5 Custom a la EVH -as an aside, the SH-5 is similar to the DiM Super Distortion.

You need that ceramic magnet bite for the 1st album sizzle...


Runnin With The Devil Reverb Test (with backing):



On Fire Test:



Here's my SH-5 Custom being used for 1984 tone through my gear. Normally I would use an SH-11 Custom Custom and Floyd for
precision, but I do not have either. However, the only difference between the Custom and Custom Custom is ceramic mag vs. A2 mag.
Some creative EQing was done to emulate things... and don't forget the Eventide!

Panama Test (with backing):



Girl Gone Bad Test:



House Of Pain Test:





Now, speaking of damning evidence... Guitar Player mag in Oct '79 (this is my copy) shows...

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

This is an SH-5 w/gold cover in a Les Paul Custom thru a Friedman modded Marshall JMP 2203.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Clips? Gotta have clips to back up claims...

Some clips of myself utilizing an early 80's SH-5 Custom a la EVH -as an aside, the SH-5 is similar to the DiM Super Distortion.

You need that ceramic magnet bite for the 1st album sizzle...


Runnin With The Devil Reverb Test (with backing):



On Fire Test:



Here's my SH-5 Custom being used for 1984 tone through my gear. Normally I would use an SH-11 Custom Custom and Floyd for
precision, but I do not have either. However, the only difference between the Custom and Custom Custom is ceramic mag vs. A2 mag.
Some creative EQing was done to emulate things... and don't forget the Eventide!

Panama Test (with backing):



Girl Gone Bad Test:



House Of Pain Test:





Now, speaking of damning evidence... Guitar Player mag in Oct '79 (this is my copy) shows...

View attachment 91508
View attachment 91509
View attachment 91510

The double thick ceramic mag in the super and mighty might clones really shifts the eq curve of the pickup, the thicker Allen poles also contribute to the punch. The sh5 isn’t really similar at all. It is only similar in that it uses approx 7000 turns of 43awg per bobbin, the winding pattern and the rest of the particulars mentioned above make it a completely different pickup, with a completely different sound.

That said many people have gotten completely convincing evh sounds out of numerous different pickups. The other gear, including the studio sheen and especially the players phrasing is way more important to the sound than the pickup ever could be. Not enough attention is ever put into the other aspects.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

This is an SH-5 w/gold cover in a Les Paul Custom thru a Friedman modded Marshall JMP 2203.

If you are playing dokken through a High Gainish type amp, doesn’t even have to even be a Marshall, regardless of what you use, it’s going to sound like dokken, not EVH, not YJM etc.... The musical phrasing of the player is just as important if not more so as the gear they are using. it all shapes the perception.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Clips? Gotta have clips to back up claims...

Some clips of myself utilizing an early 80's SH-5 Custom a la EVH -as an aside, the SH-5 is similar to the DiM Super Distortion.

You need that ceramic magnet bite for the 1st album sizzle...


Runnin With The Devil Reverb Test (with backing):



On Fire Test:



Here's my SH-5 Custom being used for 1984 tone through my gear. Normally I would use an SH-11 Custom Custom and Floyd for
precision, but I do not have either. However, the only difference between the Custom and Custom Custom is ceramic mag vs. A2 mag.
Some creative EQing was done to emulate things... and don't forget the Eventide!

Panama Test (with backing):



Girl Gone Bad Test:



House Of Pain Test:





Now, speaking of damning evidence... Guitar Player mag in Oct '79 (this is my copy) shows...

View attachment 91508
View attachment 91509
View attachment 91510

The double thick ceramic mag in the super and mighty might clones really shifts the eq curve of the pickup, the thicker Allen poles also contribute to the punch. The sh5 isn’t really similar at all. It is only similar in that it uses approx 7000 turns of 43awg per bobbin, the winding pattern and the rest of the particulars mentioned above make it a completely different pickup, with a completely different sound.

That said many people have gotten completely convincing evh sounds out of numerous different pickups. The other gear, including the studio sheen is way more important to the sound than the pickup ever could be. Not enough attention is ever put into the other aspects.

 

[51501984]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

1 post from the OP then nothing . Wondering if it`s an old memember seeing if he could get this place riled like every other EVH thread in 2011-2012 . Could it be Nitro ?

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

1 post from the OP then nothing . Wondering if it`s an old memember seeing if he could get this place riled like every other EVH thread in 2011-2012 . Could it be Nitro ?

That other evh thread about balance sounds like that too. Those nitro threads were the silliest waste of time, and had to have been either a teenager trolling, because that’s the only scenario I could think of somebody having that kind of time on their hands, or somebody with serious autism/aspergers.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

Rob option.

 

[Wdkwang]

Re: Van Halen - VH1 tone - SD '78 vs EVH Frankenstein

1 post from the OP then nothing . Wondering if it`s an old memember seeing if he could get this place riled like every other EVH thread in 2011-2012 . Could it be Nitro ?

Dont worry im still here. I'm more of an observer than a poster. I appreciate everyone's comments so far and have learned a few things, especially using ceramic mags for vh1 sizzle