Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

[dmun1]

Hello to all - first time on the SD forums, but I've used many different SD pickups over the years and loved them all.


I just dusted off a very old Invader series pickup that's been bouncing around my parts bin (in a box) since the 90s. I originally bought this pickup in the 80s from HEL Music in Saskatoon (I believe...), and after that style of music passed, I switched it out to a JB with a series/parallel config.


So I measure the coils on this old Invader, and the white/black measured 3.53 KOhms. Yes I double checked that reading, and triple checked it. I was expecting much higher DCR than that.

But the red/green coil measured open. I couldn't understand how that coil could have gone open while packed in a box with foam, but I unwrapped the tape from the pickup to see what I could find. And what I found was a 56n capacitor wired in series with the red/green coil. My meter is old and kind of slow, so it didn't see that small cap charging up at all when I first measured it. Measuring the coil after the cap revealed 3.59 KOhms.


Now this pickup does have the SD name and logo etched into the back plate, but the sticker on the back says 'N-M' and not 'SH-8' like I've found on image searches on the net. And it has the big button-head screws just like Invader pickups do, but it is not branded on the face. I've done a lot of searching for that 'N-M' model, but haven't found anything yet.

Anyone know what I've got here?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

sounds like an invader neck model

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

There is a thread right now about the Invader neck model and a guy got slapped down for telling someone exactly what you just confirmed. (Capacitor, will make one coil read dead, etc)

 

[dmun1]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

Thanks for that Jeremy - I guess the model number has changed over the years, because all I could find about the current Invader neck pups is that they're called SH-8N. Makes sense though, because they're listed at 7.5K DCR, which I find a little surprising considering the difference to the bridge pup.


And that 56n cap in series really threw me off as well - even my buddy who works for a small guitar company had never heard of that being done on a mass produced pickup.


Given my change in playing style and taste, I might have to try this thing in the bridge of my Love Rock.

 

[Alex Semple]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

Hi! As Dave mentioned there is a great thread on the Invader neck. The cap is there to keep the pickup from sounding overly bassy/muddy. Can definitely be a head scratcher when trying to meter it. The Full Shred neck also makes for a great pairing with the Invader as in the old Jackson Warrior model.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

Here is that other thread.

 

[Artie]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

If you go the main Duncan page, then Support>Tech Tips>FAQ>Pickup info>Labels built before 2002: you'll see that N-M means neck Invader, wound by Martha Cameron.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

What is your purpose in creating this thread?

You obviously know the answers to all of your concerns because you read and even posted in the other thread about the neck Invader. (Mincer included the link to that thread).

So, the answer is that you have a neck model Invader. It reads exactly as it should. There's nothing wrong with your meter. The pup has the cap that does exactly what it is supposed to do.

 

[dmun1]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

Because nowhere could I find any info that a stock Invader had a cap installed in it.

Check the post times, I was alerted to the other post after making this one.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with my meter. In all my years of tweaking guitars, I've never seen a pickup with a cap in it. Sorry.

What's your problem with me posting?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

No problem with you creating this thread. But then why are you posting in another thread asking the same questions that you are creating this thread about?

The only problem with that is that we, as forum members who are trying to help you, now have to check out both threads and keep current as to what all the other posts are saying in each thread, and answer your questions in each thread. It becomes confusing and cumbersome. I like things simple.

 

[Driverfrown]

Re: Very Old Invader With a Cap In Series?

There have been a few threads on this I have commented on in the past but I don't see my take on this here so I will expand on this:
Each coil of a seymour duncan Invader or any of their humbuckers has a white finish wire and a black start wire inside the pickups guts and then the color coding is done exiting outside the pup adding a red lead to the screws white finish wire and a green lead to screw coils black start wire.
Here is the thing they put this 103 aka .01uf cap in between this color lead change connection point as it is soldered between the screw coils finish white and its re-identified red wire going to the control cavity ...not between the slug finish white and the screw finish red.( the connection is not between the coils ) at least not until the series connection is made outside the pickup. If you switch the series to parallel or split modes it will change significantly.

I prefer to add filters via toggle switches so I always remove these caps because when they fail you have to disassemble just to test it ( there is always a dead coil reading with these using the re-identified leads) even when cap is functional must be checked internally.

what happens is when the series link is tied off outside of the pickup (red and white) then in series mode the screw only passes high frequencies to hot path through slug. When split to slug no effect, when split to screw same thing as series the screw coil acts like a cocked wah single coil. (without the eldrid high cut).
Bottom line is these internal caps are only there to reduce the mud in the neck position , and you would be better served removing them and adding a switch with a high pass filter option or changing out the button screws to std sized screw heads and pitching the cap.
Or you can leave it as is,and use it to your advantage by adding a split to screw option (split to hot path)for high pass mod on one side of a push pull with the other side activating a eldrid high cut (4.7nf to ground)
then you get a mild cocked wah. Could be worse...