Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

In response to the other posts (sorry: not going to quote them all i.e. my posts are already too long for most people's liking I know!!! LOL!!!).


Aceman:

Love the comment about only the dog being able to hear!!! LOL!!! Maybe that's the problem. My dog leaves my (home) studio the moment I turn an amp. on (within a second I might add). Dunno if she's hearing something I cannot hear or if my playing is that bad or if she's just sick and tired of hearing "Stand Up And Shout" (maybe all three)!!! LOL!!!


freefrog:

I watched all of those videos. Fascinating. And I wonder just how many people actually know about this and take it into account (well: particularly new players anyway). Not something I would even have thought of at the best of times and what a difference it makes. I use AKG wireless so not something that's affecting me though (although I must state that in my test above I was using a short instrument cable so as to avoid introducing anything extra into the recordings). And it just made me think of something: I got a Judas Priest on Blu-ray the other day and was fascinated to see that cables were still being used (Wacken last year). I wonder if there's a good reason for that??? There must be i.e. just don't know what it is.

Also and was just thinking: I wonder if it's possible that there are overtones (at the top) that we cannot hear under normal circumstances but that the CODE amps. being SS amps. are "interpreting" differently??? Maybe a cap. or two for fun??? Will test tomorrow I reckon.


Jacew, Howlermonkey, Edgecrusher, Mincer (hope I've not left anybody out) (and for the other posters I've "Liked" your posts i.e. nothing to add):

Well first: I ain't gonna rest UNTIL I can play every single note of every single Dio song (at very least from Holy Diver) until I CAN play like Vivian!!! LOL!!! I'm gettin' there. Unfortunately I'm a bit of a perfectionist (or anal) (or both) i.e. I know those songs so well that I know the instant a note is wrong or out of place and this does hamper progress I'll tell ya!!!

I do honestly believe that it's my guitars (and hopefully the pickups hence my starting this thread in the first place). I've eliminated everything else (at least I think I have). I've never had the privilege of meeting Vivian or seeing him play live but I have to disagree and say that even Vivian sounds different with different guitars and pickups (at least on the videos and DVD's and CD's and whatever else I have). Just think the difference between his sound on the Charvel's and on his (then) apparently prized Gibson LP (for example). Nah. Even if he was right here with my gear: he'd not sound the same I'm afraid. Come to think of it actually: maybe I've made a mistake in the topic of this thread. It's Vivian's tone in Dio's "Special From The Spectrum 1984" that I'm after i.e. not Vivian's tone generally speaking. Maybe that puts things in a totally different light. Dunno. And if so: apologies for the confusion. Another reason I say this: there's a chap on YouTube that's demoing BIAS AMP 2 for BIAS (let me find the link and post it). So I bought that darn stuff (out of sheer frustration). I followed his instructions for getting a specific tone to the letter. NO chance i.e. not even close not with ANY one of my guitars. Now alright: he's playing a Gibson LP. But still. I would have expected something even CLOSE to HIS sound. But all I got was was my usual, let's call it, thin sound with loads of bass and loads of treble and very little in the middle (and that was with all THREE of my guitars). Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=97&v=urSN9eSSgbQ. If you watch the end there's even a bit of "Stand Up And Shout" as well as some killer Zakk tone (at very least I can play those rhythm sections as well as him anyway so in this case it sure ain't my playing).


Anyways. Thanks everyone for the great replies. Very much appreciated.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

And so (and in a crass attempt to wrap this all up) (and just dyin' to press the "Buy now" button!!! LOL!!!).

Given all of the above what do you all think and say??? Must say that the tone guide for the Invaders are catching my eye (seems to make sense as I have, apparently, two "dark" guitars both of which have loads of bass and treble but lack mids. so far as I can tell).





Suppose worst case scenario I could order an Invader as well as the Dimarzio (the SD Distortion looks like it may just add to my woes) and put them in each of the Jackson's (although really don't want to mess with the white Jackson that's actually "doing it' for me at this point in time). Or put one in the Blaze and one in the black Jackson (but don't wanna mess with the Blaze either). Not sure if this is done but I suppose I could put both into the black Jackson (see which gets me closest to my desired tone in the bridge) i.e. will just have odd pickups from different manufacturers in the same guitar (not sure I can live with that either!!! LOL!!!). Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!

Regards,

Dale.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I use AKG wireless so not something that's affecting me though (although I must state that in my test above I was using a short instrument cable so as to avoid introducing anything extra into the recordings)

I don't know if your wireless system includes a "cable emulation" which is present in Line6 transmitters, for example: https://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/71982/


IF there's no cable simulation in your AKG system, it's as if you plugged your guitar to the amp through the short cable going to your wireless emitter... So, it should sound like the "Zerocap cable" in one the vids that I've evoked: bright and scooped.

FWIW, I've a couple of guitars with GK3 transducers which do the same... and in each 10 inch cord going from the guitar to the GK3, I've added a 750pF capacitor in order to emulate a "normally long" guitar cable. Without it, the sound was too jangly and shrill, even with powerful PU's...

And yes, it's a possible reason why Judas Priest still uses guitar cables on stage.

Regarding Marshall codes (that I've never played): a possible problem with DIGITAL amp sims is a "high pitched veil" due to sampling. I've struggled with this issue for years, when I was using digital modelers in a power amp.

About 1M volume pots: it adds 1.5dB @ resonant frequency when compared to a 500k pot.

Now, I don't "see" the screenshot about your white Jackson as "more dynamic" than the others: for me it's just louder and therefore, seems warmer. It would be interesting to transplant the pickup of the white guitar in your black and Blaze models, just to listen what happens...

FWIW (my 2 cents).

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello again.

I don't know if your wireless system includes a "cable emulation" which is present in Line6 transmitters, for example: https://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/71982/


IF there's no cable simulation in your AKG system, it's as if you plugged your guitar to the amp through the short cable going to your wireless emitter... So, it should sound like the "Zerocap cable" in one the vids that I've evoked: bright and scooped.

FWIW, I've a couple of guitars with GK3 transducers which do the same... and in each 10 inch cord going from the guitar to the GK3, I've added a 750pF capacitor in order to emulate a "normally long" guitar cable. Without it, the sound was too jangly and shrill, even with powerful PU's...

And yes, it's a possible reason why Judas Priest still uses guitar cables on stage.

Regarding Marshall codes (that I've never played): a possible problem with DIGITAL amp sims is a "high pitched veil" due to sampling. I've struggled with this issue for years, when I was using digital modelers in a power amp.

About 1M volume pots: it adds 1.5dB @ resonant frequency when compared to a 500k pot.

Now, I don't "see" the screenshot about your white Jackson as "more dynamic" than the others: for me it's just louder and therefore, seems warmer. It would be interesting to transplant the pickup of the white guitar in your black and Blaze models, just to listen what happens...

FWIW (my 2 cents).

Oh WOW!!! You bring up some things that sound awfully familiar I'm afraid!!! I've marked them in your quote above.

My transmitters don't have cables. They're called "guitar bugs" (if I remember correctly) i.e. the whole transmitter is a tiny little thing with a 1/4" jack that plugs direct into the guitar. So if I were to experiment with your idea where would I put this cap.??? Also: in series or parallel???

You mention "bright and scooped". And "scooped" is probably a good word to use for the tone I'm getting (with the black Jackson and Blaze). Although this being said: the tone is no different when using a three foot guitar cable???

You also mention "jangly and shrill". Sounds VERY familiar!!!

Must say I don't really have an issue with the CODE amps. (not that I can hear anyway). To get to my "close" or preferred tones: I've pretty much got bass at zero and mid. and treble at ten with prescence at around eight and resonance at just about zero. And distortion and gain dialed WAY back (they say this happens when you begin to "mature" as a guitar player!!! LOL!!!). But of course with these being modelling amps. those figures may not mean much (as they would, say, if we were talking straight JCM800 valves here) i.e. totally dependent on the pre-amp., power-amp, and cab. selected.

With regards to the rest:

You think that 1M pot. could play a part in my little test??? Guess I'll test tomorrow and see. This being said: it may explain why the black Jackson sounded WAY TOO MUCH with a 1M pot. i.e. it could be that the resonant frequency is much higher than the white Jackson not??? In other words: is it possible that maybe the 1M pot. was just accentuating an already uncomfortable resonant frequency??? And how much of this resonant frequency is due to pickups and how much of this resident frequency is dependent on overall construction and materials???

As far as your comment about the dynamics. Not sure. That was just my interpretation of what I was seeing. All I can tell you though is that the recorded audio for the white Jackson is somehow "clearer" and a word that immediately springs to mind is "articulate" i.e. almost as if each and every single note is "there" and "defined". Dunno how else to describe it.

But you really want to hear something funny and odd??? For the first year of being at this again: the black Jackson was by far my favorite i.e. I thought it sounded WONDERFUL. That was until I started getting my playing under wraps!!! I loved that SUPER overdone distortion with loads of delay and reverb. All THAT does is cover up mistakes and bad playing!!! LOL!!! Now: distortion and gain are dialed back VERY much and I play with NO reverb and one single delay iteration on the second amp. (this just for a stereo effect ala Vivian Campbell on the Holy Diver album). As I said: I read somewhere that this is what happens when you mature as a guitar player!!! LOL!!! (Dunno if it's true but I can say that I now cringe when I listen to recordings I made a year or so ago!!! LOL!!!). Oddly enough: I used to call my sound back then "the Jackson jangle" (but I don't want my black Jackson to "jangle" no more!!! LOL!!!).

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Maybe I make some short recordings of all three guitars tomorrow (same riff and without changing any amp. settings or anything else). That may clear things up a bit. Cannot do it now i.e. close to midnight and I have these things called "neighbours" who are not "Dio lovers" at all. And believe it or not: two CODE50's are VERY loud even at quarter tilt (really dunno why they've been relegated to "beginner" status or "bedroom amp." i.e. my Alto PA is rated at something like 2 300W RMS and I can tell you that the two CODE50's on their own, and with both the amps. and PA on ten, cut through that PA like it doesn't exist).

 

[freefrog]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hi Dale,

It's late here too so I'll reply in a few words before to go sleeping.

My transmitters don't have cables. They're called "guitar bugs" (if I remember correctly) i.e. the whole transmitter is a tiny little thing with a 1/4" jack that plugs direct into the guitar. So if I were to experiment with your idea where would I put this cap.??? Also: in series or parallel???

All you have to do is unscrewing the female jack plug of your guitar then putting a cap between hot and ground. With alligator clips, it will take you a few minutes to do the test without harming anything. If you have sveral caps to test, just keep in mind that 1ft equals roughly 50pF. So, the 750pF caps in my GK3 cords mimic 15ft cables, for example.

You think that 1M pot. could play a part in my little test???

I just think that it boosts the output signal of 1.5dB @ resonant peak.

GThis being said: it may explain why the black Jackson sounded WAY TOO MUCH with a 1M pot. i.e. it could be that the resonant frequency is much higher than the white Jackson not??? In other words: is it possible that maybe the 1M pot. was just accentuating an already uncomfortable resonant frequency??? And how much of this resonant frequency is due to pickups and how much of this resident frequency is dependent on overall construction and materials???

You're right: the 1M pot was probably enhancing a too high pitched resonant peak.

In any case, the resonant peak of a passive pickup is defined by its inductance AND the "stray capacitance" of pickups + pots + inner and outer wiring.

Inductance depends on construction and materials. Generally, high DCR implies high inductance (and more inductance = more mids) but it's not always the case...

"More later" if necessary.

Good night and regards,

FF

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I haven't read any other responses, but for some reason I thought he played a Full Shred. I could be wrong though, and I probably am.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Good morning all and sundry!!!

Hope everyone slept well. I didn't. This is the type of thing that could keep me awake for days!!! LOL!!! So in light of this: there is one Dimarzio Super Distortion DP100 F-Spaced pickup on the way. Yeh. A bit of a change of heart I know but I'm erring on the side of caution i.e. the pickup in Vivian's Charvel in that concert is definitely not an Invader (at least that I'm sure of because I've pulled, albeit lousy quality, screenshots from the video and enhanced them and definitely not an Invader). Now although I'm feeling kinda bad about this (given that all of you have been so very helpful to me here on SD's own forums): once I've installed the pickup and have it working (this is something I've never done before) in my black Jackson I will then order an Invader and put it into my white Jackson. This will be a great combination of the two guitars I think.

I haven't read any other responses, but for some reason I thought he played a Full Shred. I could be wrong though, and I probably am.

Thanks for the input and don't worry about it i.e. I've actually got no idea myself, even after spending DAYS trying to find out, as to what pickups he used back then. General consensus SEEMS to be that there were Invaders in the white Charvel at first and then changed to Dimarzio Super Distortion. But I've seen posts where it's been suggested that he's used anything from SD Distortion to SD Custom pickups and who knows what else (you get the picture). There is indeed a pic. floating around of his white Charvel (which, by the way, I believe didn't even belong to him) with an Invader but as noted above the pickup in the concert (the link is posted in my first post on this thread in case you're wondering) sure ain't no Invader. Fortunately for me: it's not Vivian's overall and general tone that I'm after (already apologised for the title of this thread) but rather the tone in that particular concert so it kinda narrows things down a bit. But yeh: thanks to you and all others for taking the time and going to the trouble of replying to me here.

I must say though: I sure have learned a new thing of two thanks to this thread i.e. makes it worth it even if these pickups don't facilitate my getting the tone that I'm after. In particular this capacitance issue. It's quite a big deal in my opinion and I'm thinking it's probably an even bigger deal given that I'm using SS amps. which really do tend to be "toppy". I actually had noticed last week the difference between my tone using my wireless system and an instrument cable (albeit that the instrument cable was only a 3 foot cable). Definitely my tone is more "scooped" (more treble, less mids.) with wireless (this edited i.e. made a mistake originally) than with an instrument cable (but I have to admit that because I'd been obsessing for days and days on end about this I thought it was just my ears and that I was just being "full of it" but, apparently, not so i.e. at least there is now an explanation for this).

As far as my Blaze and the SD Full Shred pickup is concerned: I happened to find a great video by SD on YouTube in which many different pickups are compared https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbRlcdNHYDM. Unfortunately and because of the amp. and genre I couldn't really get an idea of what the Invader may sound like for what I'm looking for tonewise. But what is REALLY obvious to me is the fact that the SD Full Shred is not as bright as most of the other pickups compared (well: this is subjective i.e. what I may be perceiving as "not bright" could be interpreted as bright but with lower mids.). To my ears: I could clearly hear the same type of tone I'm getting with my Blaze. This all being said: I did actually hear the difference between the Invader and the others within the confines of what the chap is playing. Must also say that the Nazgul "does it for me" at least insofar as what the chap is playing is concerned. Quite amazing to me the difference the pickups make tonally.

Anyways. This is a new chapter for me. I've spent a lot of time tweaking setups (mics., amps., software, lighting, you name it) but I've never bothered with getting "down and dirty" with my guitars themselves (well: other than the usual stuff of checking intonation, neck relief from time to time, pickup height, that type of thing) (and obviously CLEANING them obsessively!!! LOL!!!). But yeh: gonna make some short recordings now and then when I've fitted the new pickup: this all for the purposes of comparison obviously.

Still gonna muck about with caps. though i.e. from my, albeit limited, understanding now: would make a difference regardless of pickups used particularly as I'm using wireless and SS amps.

Thanks again everyone. Your input has been invaluable and is really very much appreciated.

Be nice to continue discussions along these lines though if anybody is keen (and if it warrants further discussion of course).

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

By the way there is indeed a thread on these very forums giving some info. re: the Dimarzio Super Distortion and the SD Invader: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?83210-Invader-vs-Super-Distortion (which ironically steered me in the Dimarzio direction).

 

[Mincer]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I have to say, those early Dio tones sound way too bright to be an Invader, unless there was some serious EQ-ing during production.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Youre overthinking it

All you needed was:
1) charvel superstrat or similar --- kramer, ESP m-i, etc --- with an invader or a duncan distortion...probably distortion, though everyone seems to say invader
2) a les paul with dimarzio super distortions
3) something marshally (marshall or copies thereof, laney, etc.)

 

[donaldr]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I think you will never nail a guitar sound you are hearing from home/PA speakers using regular guitar cab in a room. What you are hearing is a recorded sound coming out of a microphone place close to a cab (99% of the time and big chance it'll be a SM57).
I'm using an Avid Eleven Rack and you'll be shocked to hear how you can tweak your sound just by swapping the cab, the mic, the position (close/far) and the angle (front/edge). This is having a greater impact on the final result you are hearing than any pickup.
Also, you need good reference monitors. (I think you mentioned modeler thru an Alto, but an Alto is very colored).
I never tried a Marshall Code but this would not be the tool I would use to "precisely" recreate the sound I hear on record. You can get an Eleven Rack for pretty cheap these days, but if you have the budget I would suggest an Axe FX + an Atomic CLR. These will get you where you want to land (even with your current guitars).

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Gunna jump in here quick just to add my $0.02 on a couple points, since they struck a chord with me...

In most all cases I'd agree with you by saying "it could be me" (given that I'm OBVIOUSLY obsessive about most things). But not in this case I don't think. I've tried the EQ route with pedals and amps. but it's almost as if with my black Jackson and the Blaze I'm trying to EQ a range of frequencies that just don't exist or are not there to begin with (hope that makes sense). I guess it's fair to note also that I have an issue with EQ'ing my own recordings.

I think what was meant by 'it could be you' comes down more to the actual playing and coping the style, it goes a LONG way into the tone search. I could plug into EVH's rig and play EVH's riffs...it wouldn't quite be EVH.

No offense to anyone (and I know some will laugh at me) but to me it's cheating i.e. my live sound is what counts to me and what I must sound like on a recording (one take) and not what magic or trickery I can apply in a mix (and one of the reasons why I still mic. up my amps. as opposed to going digital). So I guess there's much at play here.

-And I am one of the ones laughing at you, and looks like you're throwing shade at your guitar idol too. It simply doesn't work that way. Not only SHOULD your live and recorded sound be a bit different (not just due to the obvious mic'ing portion, but to make everything gel together in different environments...), but it is damn near impossible to capture.

-One take is also laughable...not even the Guitar Gods let that happen (cause there's always something)

-I'll agree with you on having to rely on crutch's when recording, but are you saying you wouldn't cut some 350hz and boost some 3k to get your guitar to sit better in a mix and make the whole SONG sound better? I can guarantee you there was EQ added in post to these on multiple sources. The sound coming out of the cab would have had more low end than this.

-Hearing everything in context is different from the isolated tone as well, so it just makes things that much harder

I don't know if this is going to shed any light on the subject but take a look at the graphic below. It's a recording that I made on Friday (after feeling as though I was going nuts) of all three guitars. All I did was put them in a line, plug one in at a time, and tried as best I could to just strum them in a consistent fashion. What jumps out to me is the first section.

No it won't, because staring at a waveform is a waste of time. Let's HEAR what you got so far?

With that said, I definitely hear a bit of a 'honk' in the tone, on the higher side of the mids. a BF-2 with all knobs on 0 with manual at 10 does something similiar, but an EQ in the front end could do it as well. I could get close to this with an OD>EQ>Jcm800 for sure. Or just about any marshall-y amp, boosted, with a larger, more surgical EQ in the loop to really dial it in.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Dudes!!!

Thanks for the posts and the input.

Dunno where to start.

Reverse order then???

I'm not trying to record "studio like" stuff (and as a matter of fact actually recording anything wasn't even on the cards UNTIL, unfortunately, I discovered this thing called a DAW and soon after that I discovered these things called PLUG-INS and, well, it was pretty much downhill from there!!! LOL!!!). Point I'm making (all jokes aside now) is that it's my live sound that counts. But if I AM going to record it then I want it to sound exactly the same. When you're (me, you, or Vivian, or anybody else) performing live: you don't have the privilege of being able to record different takes i.e. "one take make or break" (mistakes, improvisation, and all). So that's kinda where I'm coming from. And to me: there's something "special" about a live concert and live sound to the extent where (and I reckon you'll laugh at this too BUT it works for me!!! LOL!!!): I have various "crowd tracks" that I blend in with most of the (few) recordings I do make!!! LOL!!! If nothing else it let's ME feel like I'm performing on a huge stage (something which, being realistic, will probably never happen). And it adds a certain ambience to the sound. Give me a choice between buying a studio album and a live album: hands down the live album wins every time. It's just me is all. And BY THE WAY: DIO HIMSELF actually did this very thing on the song "King Of Rock And Roll" i.e. studio recording but the crowd was added!!! So I don't feel TOO bad!!! LOL!!! And I have to say also that I've got it down pretty good in the sense that recorded guitar tracks are not processed in any way in a mix OTHER than what the mastering software (Lurssen, T-RackS 5, or Ozone 8 Advanced depending on my mood at the time) does to them after the fact. Must admit I'm kinda proud of that.

But yeh: I've been working on some little stuff today (hopefully finish tomorrow) so that you can HEAR where I'm at thus far. But let me say this: I am PRETTY close to that sound (with my one guitar) ("that sound" being the sound on the video posted in the first post on the thread for those that have not watched it). Really close. I think my biggest concern has been that if anything happens to that particular guitar then there goes my sound too and, well, not the mention the fact that there's two guitars now sitting idle (one cost a LOT of $$$). And I honestly do believe that BECAUSE I'm so close with the one guitar: the only factors coming into play are the pickups in the other two. But hey: if I'm wrong and these pickups don't solve the problem you can be sure I'll be right back here asking for more advice!!! LOL!!!

Anyways. I really do appreciate all of the feedback. It's obvious that some have not read the entire thread (and frankly I don't blame ya i.e. I know my LONG and sometimes inane posts don't go down too well with many people!!! LOL!!!). So instead of posting yet another LONG and inane post let me leave ya to ponder this (the below pics.) i.e they say "a picture paints a thousand words". For the record: just today I put my SM57's back i.e. the mics. in the one pic. are Sony Professional vocal mics. that I had lying around and was just testing at the time (same specs. as the SM58). And yeh (mentioned before): many people scoff at the CODE range. Personal opinion and based on experience: they need to spend more time with them (it's taken me around eighteen months to dial these things in but I guess you have to ask yourself if it's worth the hassle of course i.e. could accomplish the same thing in an hour with a JCM800 and an EQ pedal!!! LOL!!!). Oh and I do have an SD-1 and GE-7 both put after a MXR Custom Comp. and before the split (one direct to left amp. and the other via a DD-7 to the right amp.). Yeh: I did INDEED look around for Vivian's "Rig Rundown"!!! LOL!!! Matter of fact: I'm one up on him i.e. on the Holy Diver album the guitar part was delayed AFTER the fact. I get it "going in"!!! LOL!!! (OK: probably he went through some fancy piece of studio rack equipment at the time of recording but still: I'm quite chuffed that I've been able to mimic that exact effect without using any software trickery and only a 'lil 'ol delay pedal connected up in an odd way).





Regards,

Dale.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Alright. F**k!!! I wasn't gonna post this. But if nothing else it should give you an idea as to where this is going!!! LOL!!!

The video was ACTUALLY made (in December 2017) to demonstrate how to control and synch. DMX lighting via MIDI from within my DAW and NOT to demonstrate my (then) guitar playing (which has improved somewhat since then thankfully) (hell: I can now ALMOST play the solo like Viv!!! LOL!!!). Anyway. If nothing else: anybody that's watched enough Dio concerts will "get it" (the influences) I hope (particularly in the last few seconds or so i.e. working on those L-O-N-G drawn out guitar solos of Vivian's in the good 'ol days).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpVyhsLs5YQ

Tell you one thing: even that sound (just had it on headphones) was pretty darn close (in hindsight)!!! LOL!!! Sounds pretty "woody" to me!!! But I'm doing much better now i.e. more clarity and "bite". It was also made before I had any overdrive or EQ or delays or anything (that was just two CODE25's micd. up straight) (with a MIDI backing track of course).

Of course this (below) autoplays next (on my YouTube thingy anyway) (enough to make you wanna throw the whole lot away!!! LOL!!!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO53tkuvtpg

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

I'm gonna actually suggest a Duncan Detonator. It is basically a Distortion w/ Invader Caps. It may be the bridge between the Distortion and the Invader you are looking for.

FYI - My go to Dio guitar would absolutely be my 79 LP with a Distortion....

 

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Viv is on my list for tone cloning.

I'll let ya know when I get around to it. :naughty:

Also keep in mind, like someone mentioned, the sound you hear on the albums has been processed through studio gear.

I don't have my archives available, but I seem to recall a picture of early DIO Viv with a black Les Paul and the pickups had
2 flat "blades" in each... like a DiMarzio X2N.

Super Distortions seemed to play a role as well back then...

 

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Here's the pic:

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Here's the pic:

View attachment 94149

Pickups look really low in the rings there, almost below fretboard level.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Pickups look really low in the rings there, almost below fretboard level.

+1

If that's how he sets them up, that's surely a contributing factor to his even mid-rangey tone.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Good morning all. And thanks, once again, for the input.


Aceman:

I looked for the Detonator on SD's website but nothing. Only place it comes up is at Musicians Friend. Was hoping to check out the tone guide (whatever it's called i.e. that little EQ graphic).

There is another concert that I have on DVD (also taken from VHS) i.e. Live in Holland in 1983 which is BEFORE the 1984 "Special From The Spectrum" and Vivian/Charvel strat. era it would seem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYTlzbYm778. Is that the (type of) guitar you're talking about??? And here's where he plays (arguably) one of the finest guitar solos ever (well: it's got tone and character anyway i.e. not necessarily "the best"): https://youtu.be/uTJeSBOb5cQ?t=2201 (same concert). You can hear that "full bodied" tone (not "woody" or "jangly" enough for my liking but he WAS darn good).


LLL, beaubrummels, and Jacew:

I think the pics. are from the same era (as above)???

Pickup heights!!! Yeh!!! Surprised this has not come up on this thread!!! But nah. That ain't the problem. Believe me: I spent WEEKS adjusting those Blaze pickups up and down. Never found that "sweet spot" that everybody talks about (matter of fact there's an old thread of mine lurking around here somewhere related to this). Adjusted anywhere between 1.6mm (Jackson's spec.) right down to 6mm (apparently around the "sweet spot" for a Kramer Nightswan II) and somewhere inbetween (SD staff said to try about 5mm). Nothing. Not my desired tone. All I did was lose output and highs and certainly gained no mids. With the Jacksons (especially the black one): I'm sure darn hoping that I'm not going to have an issue with fitting that Dimarzio or an Invader i.e. the pickups are already almost in the body on that guitar (they're adjusted to Jackon's 1.6mm spec.). This changed when I fitted an original FR with additional springs, 10/46 strings, and had to change neck relief and action as a result (before this they were way out of the body). I could be in for a big surprise!!!

And yeh this is processed: https://soundcloud.com/user-290513715/dio-vivian-campbell-stand-up-and-shout. Not sure which guitar was used in the studio for the album. And although I love the album to death: not REALLY the sound I'm after (yeh I know: I'm "full of it"!!! LOL!!!).


For everyone:

There's another little known Dio concert i.e. Live In Japan 1985: https://youtu.be/jJ1rSdSRC74?t=10. Vivian with YET ANOTHER guitar (different Charvel). ("King Of Rock And Roll" being probably my second favorite Dio song). Just listen the pinch harmonics that fly out!!! But anyway: a lot of "growl" from that guitar (a type of "woody, jangly, wiry, growl"). Just listen to this solo: https://youtu.be/jJ1rSdSRC74?t=316!!! Now here's YET ANOTHER guitar: https://youtu.be/jJ1rSdSRC74?t=583. I am indeed toying with the idea of asking Buddy to make me one to those specs i.e. ONE (bridge) pickup only, no switch, no tone control, no "fluff", just a pure AXE!!! (You may as well watch the solo for the song too i.e. absolutely awesome). Also: I've become a "heavy" player (don't judge me by my video above please) and on the few occasions I take the Blaze out of its case I often find myself digging in to the middle pickup (unless it's lowered flush with the body). Another good reason to have a "no frills" guitar (never used a neck pickup in my life other than for some short Gary Moore blues type stunts so not bothered about a neck pickup).

On a sidenote and in passing: I've been listening to Dio just about DAILY (as noted earlier on the thread) since 1984. And I wanna tell ya: it doesn't matter HOW many times I listen (watch) I STILL get goosebumps EVERY SINGLE TIME (even as I sit here and post these links)!!!

I have a Vivian Campbell Tutor DVD ("Lead Masterclass"). He talks about his days with Dio and notes that it was one of the loudest bands he'd every played with and the only way to be heard was to liberally use pinch harmonics. By the time of his making this DVD though he'd left Dio and was playing BC Rich guitars (never actually seen him play them live on anything I've watched anyway). Anyway. Good DVD I guess. He talks generally about his style but nothing specific about the songs or anything like that. Odd thing to me is: there are SO many tutor videos of "Stand Up And Shout" but they either stop short of the solo or the solo is a shadow of its former self!!! Me: I've had to sit through hours and hours (weeks and months if the truth be told) of practicing it with slowed down audio and video (and I'm still not quite there i.e. he was a master in my eyes) (with Dio that is). It's something I'll never understand i.e. as you all probably know he berated himself about his work with Dio. It's (in my opinion) his best work. I did, however, read that in recent interviews he's realised that actually it (he) was PRETTY darn good at the time!!! LOL!!!

(Post edited by myself and some stuff deleted i.e. too off topic and maybe a bit controversial).

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

For some fun has anybody seen this lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG5uRzpWpt4. I find it absolutely AMAZING. That drummer KILLS man i.e. what a "machine". And of course there is Ms. White-Gluz that certainly adds color to the mix!!! LOL!!! And those dudes playing those Jackson guitars??? Really nice sound (to me). And it's a neat party trick i.e. put the audio on and ask somebody to see how many of the different voices they actually recognise.

 

[Francois]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

As far I can see in that SoundForge screenshot (at this level of zoom) the dynamics look fairly similar on the three guitars. The White Jackson being louder. The Black Jackson is not that compressed. It just has less volume.

I wish you good luck for your holy grail.