Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed :p)

[Phantasmagoria]

I just discovered my den's wall socket had the hot/neutral pin-outs wired the wrong way - ie. the opposite way (ground was fine). Went around the house and found a couple more outlets wired that way. According to my online research: hot/phase (when facing the wall socket) should be on the right & neutral on the left but my amp socket was wired the other way around (hot on the left/neutral on the right).

Anyway, I'm now plugged into another outlet on the opposite side of the room & my amps (Bugera & Randall) sound a WHOLE LOT nicer! Am I imagining this or is it really that big a deal? They seem a bit smoother/less noisy with more sustain & less thin/rounder/sweeter highs specifically. Could I have screwed something up (output tranny or something) using them plugged into a wrongly wired socket all this time? Or is it just the tone/feel that gets affected? (which it most certainly does)..

I need to get that old socket rewired so can use my little 15 watt Goldea Rex 3200 properly....it's lead won't reach the new socket I'm now using for my other amps.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

It does make a diff and some devices won't work properly if they're not correctly connected [ motor phase and such ]. I wouldn't worry about any damage to your gear though.
Fixing the power point polarity is as simple as reversing the wires at the back of the plug. If you do it, Turn of the power at the meter box and wear some rubber gloves and rubber soled shoes for safety. It should be a simple matter of undoing a couple of screws, reversing the wires and retightening the screws.The wire terminals should be marked on the plug but it should be easy to ascertain which are the two power wires and which is the earth. There's no need to touch the earth.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

Assuming you are in North America (110V) ... Black (hot) wire goes to the gold/brass colored terminals of the outlet, white (neutral) to the silver. You shouldn't have to mess with the earth/ground but that bare wire goes to the green ground lug (also to the box ground if it's a metal box). If the wires are connected to the appropriate terminals at the outlet in question, then they are reversed somewhere upstream, at an upstream outlet, or more unlikely, in the breaker panel. Tracing the circuit back is the only "complicated" part. You just have to confirm which outlets are on the same circuit. Trip the breaker off in the panel and check the outlets/switches that are now off/cold. It's not difficult but if you aren't comfortable, by all means call an electrican to sort it out.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

He's in South Africa from memory. We discussed something else once before. He has around 240 Volt power.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring

Red & White -or- Yellow & Blue for phase, Black for Neutral, and Green/Yellow banded or bare for Ground/Earth...

Basically, throw the breaker for the room, carefully open one you know is correct, and follow that on the one with an issue.

Or, call an electrician (or your landlord, if you rent).

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

He's in South Africa from memory. We discussed something else once before. He has around 240 Volt power.

India...and 230 Volts. Yeah man..you helped me out with the little tube preamp I made for my CD player...still works fine/still using it :beerchug:

..and thanks for the advice guys. I'll cut the mains and try switching those two wires around myself. Does'nt seem like a huge deal. I was just worried that I might have done some damage to my amps...but apparently/hopefully not ..that's a relief

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

India...and 230 Volts. Yeah man..you helped me out with the little tube preamp I made for my CD player...still works fine/still using it :beerchug:

..and thanks for the advice guys. I'll cut the mains and try switching those two wires around myself. Does'nt seem like a huge deal. I was just worried that I might have done some damage to my amps...but apparently/hopefully not ..that's a relief

I stand corrected.:fing2:

 

[MrTondo]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

It would be very strange if it would really make a difference...

The only thing that is different between these two wires is phase. And since the first thing your amp does is make AC into DC it should not matter even one bit...

Here in Europe we cannot even distinguish between the right polarities for many appliances... The main reason to need correct polarity wiring is single-pole switching. If you switch only a single pole and accidentally do it to the neutral wire, you are in danger when using a toaster etc. In Europe we have mandatory double-pole switching with mandatory RCD protection, so that problem is solved and we do not need correct wiring, we are save when a mistake is made.

I repeat, there should not be any difference in sound!

That is unless the wiring is poor, too high resistance, noisy etc. and the new socket you now used was less noisy etc. That could be something that happened. But I repeat, it cannot physically be the polarity reversing.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

It would be very strange if it would really make a difference...

The only thing that is different between these two wires is phase. And since the first thing your amp does is make AC into DC it should not matter even one bit...

Here in Europe we cannot even distinguish between the right polarities for many appliances... The main reason to need correct polarity wiring is single-pole switching. If you switch only a single pole and accidentally do it to the neutral wire, you are in danger when using a toaster etc. In Europe we have mandatory double-pole switching with mandatory RCD protection, so that problem is solved and we do not need correct wiring, we are save when a mistake is made.

I repeat, there should not be any difference in sound!

That is unless the wiring is poor, too high resistance, noisy etc. and the new socket you now used was less noisy etc. That could be something that happened. But I repeat, it cannot physically be the polarity reversing.

Well, thanks to our colonial past we use a plug that's almost identical/very similar to a UK plug (with round pins instead of flat) and I think the "official" electrical standards are pretty much identical as well.

However I can't speak as to how well they're adhered to haha...things can be pretty lax here :lmao:

Having said that I live bang in the center of town (commercial/business hub) & my city's the "IT capital" of the country...so I'm wired up better than anywhere else presumably..

I don't really know about the other technical stuff you mentioned but I'm pretty sure the quality of wiring's ok at my place (apart from the polarity issue). Again I can't say why it sounds different...but I have sensitive ears and it does...it's very subtle but definitely noticeable (especially in regard to the fatter/more present highs & overall smoothness).

I also tried my hi-fi (big pre/power amp/big tower speakers) in both outlets and the difference is again subtle but noticeable. (It sounds more 3D through the correctly wired outlet..with things like double-bass drums "popping" out of the mix more...)

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

There may be more variables on play. I wouldn't jump to the first conclusion.

Are the sockets with the difference in tone related, as in the same group in the switchboard?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

Yeah, well.. they're on the same line (and they're identical sockets) so I suppose so...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

I have a CD player with a non polarized plug. There is a buzz in the system with the plug flipped one way and it's quiet with the plug flipped the other. The thing is that even without the CD player turned on, the buzz was transferred to another component in the system. I don't know how that would translate to the wiring outside of North America but I wouldn't totally discount the theory that there would be no difference in sound with a reversed neutral/hot. Hum or buzz in the system is a detriment to sound quality. It could be low level enough that interference itself isn't clearly audible but eliminating that noise could result in a positive difference. I don't think it would account for all the improvements that the OP described but could account for the lower noise and therefore, maybe some improved clarity. At any rate, it should be wired correctly.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

I don't claim to know a thing about electrical outside of North America, but I would imagine it would have to do with the phase arrangement as to why there's a perceived difference.

For 120VAC applications in North America, there's no logical reason why you "couldn't" reverse the neutral and hot (it's alternating current on a single phase so they're switching from positive to negative 60 cycles a second).

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

Personally, I wouldn't worry about sonic differences so much as making sure the outlets are wired correctly. Just knowing a device with a polarized or three-prong cord is getting live voltage on the pin where it's expecting neutral? That's enough to make my skin crawl. I know it's not necessarily going to make an operational or safety difference, but it means I'm not doing my job as the product's owner.

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

Phase issues belong in a situation with three phases, not one. Neutral-hot-ground outlets only have one. There really shouldn't be a difference which is which from neutral and hot, but ground should definitely always be ground.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

Does everyone realize AC power doesn't mean there's a complete reversal of absolute polarity between hot and neutral with every cycle? The neutral wire stays at or very near 0 V with respect to ground, while the hot wire swings between (North America) about +170 V and -170 V. (RMS amplitude is 120 V.) So while relative polarity between neutral and hot is changing, if you're watching both voltages from the perspective of ground, you see that neutral stays the same while hot is the only one changing.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

It would be very strange if it would really make a difference...

The only thing that is different between these two wires is phase. And since the first thing your amp does is make AC into DC it should not matter even one bit...

Here in Europe we cannot even distinguish between the right polarities for many appliances... The main reason to need correct polarity wiring is single-pole switching. If you switch only a single pole and accidentally do it to the neutral wire, you are in danger when using a toaster etc. In Europe we have mandatory double-pole switching with mandatory RCD protection, so that problem is solved and we do not need correct wiring, we are save when a mistake is made.

I repeat, there should not be any difference in sound!

That is unless the wiring is poor, too high resistance, noisy etc. and the new socket you now used was less noisy etc. That could be something that happened. But I repeat, it cannot physically be the polarity reversing.

Phase issues belong in a situation with three phases, not one. Neutral-hot-ground outlets only have one. There really shouldn't be a difference which is which from neutral and hot, but ground should definitely always be ground.

It's always best to have your wiring meet code (and I would correct the error), BUT for this particular situation, it really doesn't matter and YES, you are imagining a difference in sound.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

It's always best to have your wiring meet code (and I would correct the error), BUT for this particular situation, it really doesn't matter and YES, you are imagining a difference in sound.

If the heaters are AC it COULD be screwing with the phase of those, and not all tubes are exactly insensitive to differences in voltage between the heaters and other parts (like the Tung-Sol 12AX7s that can't take the difference in voltage between the heater and cathode in a cathode-follower position and burn up).

So, it is theoretically possible that there's something going on there that might be canceling frequencies or inducing others.

It could also affect noise depending on how the ground is referenced.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

NTDR, but I'd just like to say that Isla Fisher GIF continues to deliver.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Wall socket polarity... (mine was reversed )

NTDR, but I'd just like to say that Isla Fisher GIF continues to deliver.

It's certainly polarizing but I don't think it affects the tone of the forum. It's definitely more hot than neutral, and I say that from a well-grounded position.

Now, I wonder if she knows a good electrician for the OP. LOL