What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

SirJackdeFuzz

SirJackdeFuzz

New member
I am referring to the low wattage amps that are supposed to be ''smaller'', more affordable versions of the big models.


Amps that come to mind is :

Mesa Mark Five : 25
Mesa Mini Rectifier 25
Mesa Rectro-Verb 25
Krank Krankenstein Jr. 20watt
Krank Rev Jr. 20watt
Peavey 6505 MH 20watt


Would you buy one ?

How good are they at simulating their much BIGGER brothers, with EL84 tubes in them ?

Are they intended to be a direct / perfect reflection of their bigger brothers ?

Can the Mesa Mini Rectifier, or Peavey 6505 MH really sound like the REAL thing ?
Can EL84s reproduce Big Bottle low end ?

Will you gig with one ?
Or is this a clever, well thought-out bed room amp ?



http://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/1449/118738/6505MH#overview - Peavey 5605 MH

http://www.mesaboogie.com/amplifiers/electric/rectifier-series/mini-rectifier-twenty-five/index.html - Mesa mini Recto
 
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Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

As good as two EL-84 amps are at getting a cranked amp tone at reasonable volumes, I like to see low wattage amps that feature one EL-34 or 6L6. I don't know why they dont do that more often.

Overall, these lunchbox amps sound best on high quality 212 and 412 cabs, rather than the small cabs they're sold with. By doing this, they sound more like their high wattage counterparts scaled back in volume.
 
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Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Lots of dudes crank the preamp gain and turn the master up just enough to be heard. I imagine these lunchbox amps are aimed at that crowd.

I prefer to crank the master volume, set the gain to "just barely breaking up" and i sold my EL84 amps in favor of my fullsize amps.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

There's definitely a need for them with the home/basement players but are still way too loud for guys looking for seriously quiet rehearsing. Still, some of their bigger brothers end-up cheaper used than they smaller ones (ex: got my rectoverb 50 for way less than a new rectoverb 25 or mini recto).

I'm interested and do get why they're out there and getting popular but still not enough to get one.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Some of those lunchboxes are bigger sounding than others.

But EL84s will never sound like big bottles. They have their own sonic character no matter how the amp is made.

If you are all about pre-amp gain, it may not be as big of a deal to you. But if you are trying to emulate old classic Big Bottle amps set to kill...Marshalls, HiWatts, Bassmans, Dual Showmans, etc. then the small amps are not going to cut it. Been there,done that , wasted a ****pile of $.You need big bottles, big volume and multiple speakers getting pushed to get those sounds.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Well I have the Marshall DSL15H, but not for long. On paper it seemed perfect. 6V6s instead of EL84s. No loop but that didn't matter to me. But they gave the green and red channels the wrong modes. The green channel doesn't have the crunch mode that everybody loved on the big DSLs. It has only the clean clean mode instead. The green channel required cranking the gain all the way, all the time, and it was still too clean. It is more Fender clean than the EL34 DSL green channels, probably because of the 6V6s, but I like smokey cleans, not clean cleans. Besides I found that the green channel can't be heard with a real drummer, supported by 15 watts anyway. With both the volume and gain on 10 the green channel does start to deliver output stage overdrive, but its just not loud enough with live drums. Even through V30s.

The red channel on the 15 watt DSLs only has the extreme gain mode. It's just a mess. There are mods worked out to tame the red channel and it sounds great modded, but who buys an amp that has to be modded to sound good? The red channel modded plays great with drums and roars through a 4x12 though.

The DSL40 is a better low watt Marshall. It can be clicked down to 20 watts and it has the crunch and lead 1 modes. Too bad the don't make the DSL40 in a small box head.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I think they are good for the guys who want those tones in their basement/ bedroom because they realize trying to get a JCM800 tone anything less than earth shattering is impossible.

With that said, I won't own one anytime soon. No need for me.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

In my experience even the smallest amps are stupid loud when delivering the goods. So it's best to go all in and get a proper big amp, not a diminished version of one. Small amps that are not trying to act bigger than they are are a whole another thing.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

The baby EVH mini stack does a pretty good impersonation of that high gain, touch-sensitive, tapping sound. Unfortunately, this is something for which I have much use.

Regarding EL84 output stages versus bigger bottles, I have a MESA/Boogie 20:20. It is unbelievably loud but something about its tone isn't as I would wish. I plan to change to a Simul:Class power amp for use with the ol' Quad Pre-Amp. The 20:20 might go nicely with a Rocktron rack pre-amp - if those ever reach the market.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

My Tweaker is actually older than it's brothers. First came the 15, then the 40 and then the 88.

Changing from 6V6 to 6CA7 power tubes really does change the sound a lot when pushed. Much firmer and much more defined. Wonderful sounding thing.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I have several Mesa amps. I have a couple of 4xEL84 amps; a DC-3 and a Maverick. They sound and feel different; the DC-3 is tighter and more dynamic than the "Class A" Mav which is downright spongey. The big bottle Mark IIIs, IV and V are different still, but both have their place. I've always liked the dynamic response of big, powerful amps, but the little ones are fun too.

I've had my Mark V combo for more than a year now, and I'm still finding great new tones. But when I had a chance to pick up a V:25 mini stack dirt cheap, I grabbed it, and couldn't be happier. Seems to be just about perfect for my current band, though it might not have been enough for my old band--we played much louder. The V:25 makes a lot of sense for me. The preamp is stripped down a bit from the big amp, but they sound remarkably similar. One of the things I like about my Mesas is that they sound pretty good at low volume.

You will pay for Mesa quality. Some of the small amps from other companies feel cheap to me and are noisy and buzzy. I like the quality and the professional features of Mesa amps.

The V:25 mini-stack uses Celestion V-30s, and the head is also AWESOME thru my 412 EVM Half-Back cab. It does play loud! ☺ Ditto for the Mini-Recs and the Express 5:25+. So, make sure you're using good speakers with your small amp.

And if you need just a little bit more, the new Mark V:35 should work well. The power is similar to my DC-3, and it's never been not loud enough. Mesa has some 50-watt big bottle amps too.

Bill
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I like EL-34s and 6L6s for a reason. I am not into any of these "lunchbox" amps with the EL-84s, I have played a few but they are lacking that big valve girth on the output side..
If you just like pre amp gain then these will work for you, if you like big output valve balls then you will be dissatisfied with the 6V6 and EL-84 amps.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I'm not a huge fan of the cranked amp sound so 20 vs 50 vs 100 watts makes surprisingly little difference to me. The mini heads are hit or miss. Some sound really nasally and weak, some I'd fail to tell apart in a blind test.

I just don't get the "lower watts so you can crank everything to 10 and sound like ass 20% sooner" marketing pitch a lot of companies use. The convienience for me is the size.
 
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Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

^ It's about power tube distortion and whether you happen to like the sound of your amp doing it. For me, it's ranged from "revolting" to "freakin sweet" -- depending on the amp.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Sleepy said:
I'm not a huge fan of the cranked amp sound so 20 vs 50 vs 100 watts makes surprisingly little difference to me. The mini heads are hit or miss. Some sound really nasally and weak, some I'd fail to tell apart in a blind test.

I just don't get the "lower watts so you can crank everything to 10 and sound like ass 20% sooner" marketing pitch a lot of companies use. The convienience for me is the size.
Click to expand...


. . . ^ ^ ^ too funny :laughing:
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

The Rectifiers sound better the more you crank them, they need to be on at least 50% volume to get the tone that I want. The mini is a pretty decent replication to my ear. Sounds pretty close to the real deal considering how much less air it's moving. It would be a WHOLE LOT easier to get it up and down stairs. That flipping 4X12 recto cab is a beast to move.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I had a Vox Night Train 15 watt (Which I guess along with the Orange Tiny Terror started the whole thing?) a while back and I loved it, especially the thick channel. I found out I was using the thick channel almost exclusively and the thick channel rendered the EQ controls useless, so when I got to practice with the band, it was hard to punch through or find sonic space to settle in. I sold it and got a 50w head. Bass has always had micro-sized solid state amps the size of textbooks around, but I could never find one I liked. I just picked up the Orange Micro Dark 20 watts that came out a few months ago I think. It's power amp section is solid state and the preamp uses a 12Ax7, so no EL84s. I'm loving it so far, even more than I did the older Night Train and more than the Tiny Terror I tried too, but I still haven't tried the Dark Terror so I can't compare it to it's 15 watt big brother. Still haven't tried it in a band either so I might get some Vox deja vu, but I got the thing mainly as a practice amp and it costs 1/3rd of what I paid for the Night Train when it first came out, so no harm no foul if it doesn't work this time since I'm not using it as a workhorse.

I would like to see how well it holds up against my drummer while keeping its tone clean just to see if I could get away with taking it to guitar gigs that won't have a PA system to use. Distorted I know it keeps up with loud drummers, it's insane. I remember something Itsabass said (I think) about the whole band being involved in making things work. He mentioned using a 15 watt amp because the whole band's sound was created to be inclusive of it for the sake of the band sounding a certain way, which makes a lot of sense. If the bassist and drummer is just pounding away all the time, then no, the little guy might not work, but there is an element in the music's composition that also determines whether or not something like a 15w amp playing clean will serve its purpose.
 
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Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Most of the "lunch box" heads I've tried were decent, but not great. This is mainly at lower volumes through a 1x12 or 2x12. BUT many of them through the 2x12 or a 4x12 at higher/band volumes sound really good. I know they catch a lot of hate, but my Tubemiester 18 sounds great at 50%+ volume. At "bedroom" volume it just Meh. I really like the Mesa amps, the Mk 5:25 does have a slightly different tone compared to the full size, but it's pretty close. I would love to get a Trans Atlantic at some point, but I've already got plenty of amps so it's not a priority right now.
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

Most of the answers here are to the question "can lunchbox amps do what bigger amps can?" - and good points made. But there's a flip to that question: "can bigger amps do what lunchbox amps can?" They're clearly different beasts (though the marketing often tries to persuade otherwise) and so should really be considered on their own merits.

I have a 1998 Budda Verbmaster 18W, Marshall JTM-615 from the mid-90s, had a Vox AC-30, had a Mesa Transatlantic TA-15, and have a Mesa Rectoverb 25. I play bar/small club gigs (I suspect like most people on forums, even if they talk like they play arenas all the time) in my own trio (think The Jam and you're close) and in my lead guitar gig.

My bottom line is that I can, and have, made each of these amps work for any size venue. My Budda would be my main amp all the time, but it's not reliable enough for regular gigging (so it stays my studio and practice workhorse). The Rectoverb 25 is my main live squeeze at the moment - it has a great clean channel that takes pedals well, I usually run in the 25W mode; the gain channel is typically on vintage mode, medium drive, as a non-pedal lead tone - the modern gain setting is ferocious, but rarely for me. For small gigs, the combo is enough (the Fillmore speaker is ace), though I'll use an extension cab for larger stages - personally, I really enjoy an alnico speaker coupled to the Fillmore.

Here's the thing: I did all of the above with they TA-15 and it sounded just as good - to the extent that I have had players in other bands step away from 100W combos and ask to use my rig and thoroughly enjoy doing so. When I talked about it with them, it simply comes down to "a little amp pushed hard vs. a large amp being held back". I had this myself when comparing the TA-15 with the AC30. I sold the TA-15 because I designed my own custom amp with Mike at Whitney Amplificaton.

Little/lunchbox amps win on practicality - reasonable tone at reasonable levels, portability (as an AC30 owner, I'll testify to this one until I'm in the ground), and fit/blend in band sound. They're not large amps, but I don't expect them to be - for now, they'll continue to be my choice.

All of the above with the caveat that my tone is my tone, so your mileage may vary.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Re: What do you guys think of the new generation of little big amps ?

I like them a lot, but I prefer bigger amps. Most bigger amps nowadays get great tones at low volumes. The days of cranking an amp to get a good sound are largely done, unless of course that's the tone you're after. Even if it is, with the mini amps, I've they are ear shatteringly loud, so I don't know that cranking them is really an option at home. I wouldn't mind a Mark V 25, but I am happy with my 5150 III, Sig-X and Dual Recto even at lower volumes. I don't find lower wattage amps necessary.
 
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