What is a "line out" output for?

Re: What is a "line out" output for?

Simply speaking, it's a path out of your amp from after the pre-amp and before the power amp. The signal coming out of it is to be either sent to an outside power amp, or through another device (e.g. a noise gate), and then back in your line in jack, where it rejoins the circuit roughly where it left.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

This is not true. A balanced line output is designed to use a TRS cable, but will work just fine with a TS one.

If you use a TS cable, the signal is no longer a balanced. It requires a TRS cable to have a balanced line.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

The line out level should high enough that you don't need symmetric cables to get acceptable interference levels. Depends on what the local amount of interference is, of course.

Symmetric cables are important for microphone level.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

If you use a TS cable, the signal is no longer a balanced. It requires a TRS cable to have a balanced line.
Which is exactly what I went on to say, although without the technical terms...

The only other difference when running a TS cable into a balanced input will be slightly higher noise floor. Balanced connections carry two copies of the signal out of phase with each other so that noise can be canceled when they're re-combined. A TS cable can only carry one of the copies, so this canceling isn't possible.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

Another thing that is useful about a line out on a bass amp is that you can bi-amp. The line out can be used to go to another power amp to drive a cab with a horn or larger diameter speaker for more frequency coverage.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

Another thing that is useful about a line out on a bass amp is that you can bi-amp. The line out can be used to go to another power amp to drive a cab with a horn or larger diameter speaker for more frequency coverage.

And that's another thing that depends on your amp. On some it's an "extra cab" line (even though it says line out), on some it's true line out.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

And that's another thing that depends on your amp. On some it's an "extra cab" line (even though it says line out), on some it's true line out.

You're probably thinking of a slave out which is a line level output intended to drive an additional amplifier. There is no way that a speaker output will ever be labeled 'line out' because a signal intended for a speaker would be much more powerful (than line level) and be very likely to damage a line level device.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

You're probably thinking of a slave out which is a line level output intended to drive an additional amplifier. There is no way that a speaker output will ever be labeled 'line out' because a signal intended for a speaker would be much more powerful (than line level) and be very likely to damage a line level device.

Actually, my point is more "go read the manual" because I've seen some amp makers label stuff "Line Out" that's not truly Line Out, if you know what I mean.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

It all depends on who made the amp in question. A 50w amp from most companies is a practice amp, suitable for the bedroom. Something like the Double Four from Phil Jones Bass (which is 75w) I use regularly with 37 piece orchestras with no support and it's fine. The DF does have a line out, but the soundmen I deal with usually like having a regular DI box instead, because they're used to that and know how to EQ from it so I don't bother.

Hadn't heard of Phil Jones Bass. The Double Four is very intriguing; a 9-pound bass amp that's actually useful on a gig. But, I'm very skeptical of the response pattern of a couple of 4-inch woofers.

The biggest determinant of volume from a rig is not actually wattage, it's the sensitivity of the speakers. Sensitivity provides a baseline for all that power; it's how loud the speakers are when fed 1W of power, as measured from 1 meter away. You can have a 5000W rig, but if your speakers only have 80dB sensitivity, this monster rig will have the same volume, all other things being equal, as a 50w rig with 100dB sensitivity speakers. Now, sensitivity itself is only measured from one reference frequency, usually 1kHz. So, manufacturers can game the system by designing speakers with a resonant peak of 1kHz and crappy response at every other frequency. So, another key indicator is the full frequency response curve; this will tell you how much sensitivity the speaker retains, or even gains, at frequencies other than the reference frequency.

Unfortunately, a lot of instrument speaker manufacturers, even expensive brand names (like PJB), don't make this information readily available. Sometimes I've even struggled to find sensitivity ratings and resonant peak information, much less a full frequency response graph. The Double Four's manual is no help here.
 
Last edited:
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

Hadn't heard of Phil Jones Bass. The Double Four is very intriguing; a 9-pound bass amp that's actually useful on a gig. But, I'm very skeptical of the response pattern of a couple of 4-inch woofers.

The biggest determinant of volume from a rig is not actually wattage, it's the sensitivity of the speakers. Sensitivity provides a baseline for all that power; it's how loud the speakers are when fed 1W of power, as measured from 1 meter away. You can have a 5000W rig, but if your speakers only have 80dB sensitivity, this monster rig will have the same volume, all other things being equal, as a 50w rig with 100dB sensitivity speakers. Now, sensitivity itself is only measured from one reference frequency, usually 1kHz. So, manufacturers can game the system by designing speakers with a resonant peak of 1kHz and crappy response at every other frequency. So, another key indicator is the full frequency response curve; this will tell you how much sensitivity the speaker retains, or even gains, at frequencies other than the reference frequency.

Unfortunately, a lot of instrument speaker manufacturers, even expensive brand names (like PJB), don't make this information readily available. Sometimes I've even struggled to find sensitivity ratings and resonant peak information, much less a full frequency response graph. The Double Four's manual is no help here.

If you're on Facebook, friend Phil Jones. He posts a ton of the kind of information you're looking for, and can answer any questions you may have. Given that he's designed EVERYTHING from the ground up, I'm sure he'll have plenty of info for you.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

You could use the line out direct to the mixer, and add just enough bass in the house mix to fill out the overall sound. Kind of like micing the bass drum in small venues.
 
Re: What is a "line out" output for?

Hadn't heard of Phil Jones Bass. The Double Four is very intriguing; a 9-pound bass amp that's actually useful on a gig. But, I'm very skeptical of the response pattern of a couple of 4-inch woofers.

The biggest determinant of volume from a rig is not actually wattage, it's the sensitivity of the speakers. Sensitivity provides a baseline for all that power; it's how loud the speakers are when fed 1W of power, as measured from 1 meter away. You can have a 5000W rig, but if your speakers only have 80dB sensitivity, this monster rig will have the same volume, all other things being equal, as a 50w rig with 100dB sensitivity speakers. Now, sensitivity itself is only measured from one reference frequency, usually 1kHz. So, manufacturers can game the system by designing speakers with a resonant peak of 1kHz and crappy response at every other frequency. So, another key indicator is the full frequency response curve; this will tell you how much sensitivity the speaker retains, or even gains, at frequencies other than the reference frequency.

Unfortunately, a lot of instrument speaker manufacturers, even expensive brand names (like PJB), don't make this information readily available. Sometimes I've even struggled to find sensitivity ratings and resonant peak information, much less a full frequency response graph. The Double Four's manual is no help here.

I don't know about the 4" drivers, but based on my experience with the 5" drivers, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

My first experience with Phil Jones was at a TalkBass get-together in Seattle 3-4 years ago. Someone brought a briefcase amp, which has two 5" speakers. I grabbed a bass and plugged it in, without really paying attention to the bass I was plugging in. (The point of the get-togethers is to meet other bass players, show off stuff you have that is less than common, and try other people's stuff.) When I started playing, something didn't sound right.

As it turned out, the bass was a Knuckle Quake, a 39.5" scale bass that was tuned an octave low. I was immediately in love with the bass, but the most remarkable thing about that moment was that the speakers didn't puke. Later, I and others plugged a normally tuned bass into it, and it sounded phenomenal! I had no idea speakers that small could not only produce bass, but produce it well.

The briefcase immediately went on my short list, and I finally got one a few weeks ago. But before that, about a year or so ago, I got a Phil Jones suitcase amp (4x5), and later got a 6B (6x5) neo cab. Now, I use a 250W micro head through the cab for gigs, and I get all the volume and clarity I could want from a rig that is compact and light and convenient. It wouldn't work if you had to take a bus to practice or a gig, but it will fit nicely into any car.


Back on topic... I wouldn't hesitate to use the line out on my amp to feed the main board, or feed another amp. But I'd prefer to use the pre-amp out, if there's a choice.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top