What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing difference

[everdrone]

What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing difference

Any insights are appreciated for speakers and amps. If I buy a speaker or amp that is "american voiced/flavor", does that mean it really is built for honky midrange country twang? And a "british voiced/flavor" means that it will make me sound like the beatles and led zeppelin? I have an Orange Thunderverb 50 and Celestion Vintage 30s, so I suppose my amp and speakers are both British Voiced, from British Companies. So if I replace the speakers, should I replace them with British Voiced speakers, or American Voiced Speakers? Here are the descriptions of the speakers I am comparing; I am pretty sure no one on the forums has ever compared the two:
_______________________________________________________________________________
AMERICAN SPEAKER ADVERTIZING/MARKETING SOUND DESCRIPTION OF SPEAKER:
speaker with a little Texas edge. This speaker delivers a very balanced tone with crisp mids and top end bite, tight bottom end, and very American tonality. Great for classic rock, blues, and country.


APPLICATION 12" Open or Closed Back OVERALL COLORATION
CONFIGURATION 1, 2, or 4 X 12" Very balanced with crisp mids and top end bite. Tight bottom end, very American tonality.
LOW END RESPONSE Aggressive
LOW END SHAPE Tight
MID RANGE RESPONSE Aggressive BREAK UP MODES Medium
MID RANGE SHAPE Crisp POWER RANGE Up to 125 watts
HIGH END RESPONSE Aggressive INSTRUMENT Lead/Rhythm Guitar
VOLUME/POWER Louder GENRE Classic Rock, Blues, Country
_________________________________________________________________________________


BRITISH SPEAKER ADVERTIZING/MARKETING SOUND DESCRIPTION OF SPEAKER: British Flavored Hard Hitting Guitar Speaker delivers a nice round, balanced tone with extended top end and less lower-mid meat. Great for blues, southern rock, and country.

APPLICATION 12" Open or Closed Back OVERALL COLORATION
CONFIGURATION 1, 2, or 4 X 12" A nice round, balanced tone like the other, but with extended top end and less lower-mid meat.
LOW END RESPONSE Aggressive
LOW END SHAPE Fat/Round
MID RANGE RESPONSE Moderate BREAK UP MODES Medium
MID RANGE SHAPE Warm POWER RANGE Up to 125 watts
HIGH END RESPONSE Aggressive INSTRUMENT Lead/Rhythm Guitar
VOLUME/POWER Loudest GENRE Blues, Southern Rock, Country



Any comments or insights are appreciated, cheers :beerchug:

 

[FuseG4]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

for example I put I "british flavored" speaker in my very american deluxe reverb reissue... And, it sounds different from stock but it still sounds like a deluxe reverb and I could play country or rock or punk or ska or whatever. you can mix and match the "flavors" however you want. As long as you pick a speaker that's going to make a tonal change that you like it should handle whatever you play. You need to ask what the v30 isn't doing for you.

If you want less mids and more bass a lot of american speakers will do that versus a v30. I dunno tho, I always thought that Orange had based a lot of their EQ on the v30s sound. it might unbalance the amp to go for a very different speaker or it might not.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

To me:

"British" speaker sound = probably voiced using either a V30 or a greenback as a base. Very tight and grinding or loose and trashy, respectively. Lots of high end bite, gobs of midrange, and on a V30, weak, but tight, bass. Weak and cold clean; need to be pushed quite a way in order to sound their best.

"American" speaker sound = probably voiced using a Jensen, JBL, or CTS as a jumping off point. Tonally balanced. Fat and spongy, yet solid and thumpy, with a clear, but not brittle high end. Lots of "backbone." Thick, but wonderful when overdriven, and very strong at cleans. Very versatile and not very finicky as far as sounding much better or worse at any given level of breakup or cleanliness.

IME, V30's sound like dog **** until they been broken in, maybe about 50-75 hours at least. Then they feel much less clinical and boxy.

 

[Diego]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

To me, the British sound has wide mids, rounder bass and warm highs,
while the American sound has narrower, more focused mids (hence with slightly "scooped" bits across the range), tighter bass and more cutting highs.

 

[nedcronin]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Diego, to my ears they the opposite of how you just described them.

 

[Diego]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

That's odd. I was thinking on how the traditional "Marshall" flavor has mids that are a bit too wide or overbearing for certain modern styles.

In a nutshell:

British: Slash, very early Metallica, Queen, Bonamassa/Black Country Communion.
American: Black Album era-Metallica, every modern Screamo/Djent/Death Metal band out there, early 2000s Alt Rock like Creed, modern prog like Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree.

In the American sounds the high end is very focused and clear, running dangerously close to buzzy or fizzy, and the mids have an emphasis in their higher range,
while on the British sounds those two peaks are brought down a bit in the spectrum.
So the highs aren't as crystalline and the mids sound a bit too boxy and honky for modern applications but just right for a classic Les Paul/Strat hard rock growl.

That's how I think it is.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

^ Diego, that's how I tend to perceive it. I see mention of British vs. American voicing in relation to amps as well as speakers, and depending on the context, I think the discrepancy is in what is meant by "American". Specifically, is it a Fender or a Mesa/Boogie? And are those just two variations on the same thing?

 

[JeffB]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

American Flavor: hot dogs, hamburgers, apple pie, steak

British Flavor: fish, chips, organ meats, savory pies

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

That certainly clarifies the issue.

 

[JeffB]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

On a serious note, about the only things that I think really distinguishes the american amp and speaker setup vs, the british/celestion thing is midrange complexity, pleasing to the ear compression under gain, and extremes of frequency.

And if you mixing and matching amp and speaker the line blurs dramatically.

 

[phil_104]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Diego : That's pretty much how I see it also. For me it's almost a question of warmth vs clarity and definition.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

I have a tendancey to agree w/ Diego's assessment.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

American Flavor: hot dogs, hamburgers, apple pie, steak

British Flavor: fish, chips, organ meats, savory pies

Exactly.....
It is just MORE Internet schlok. That is what it is. (just in general. not specific to the posters at present. not an insult)
The only important thing to consider about a speaker (other than power, impedance that are common to all) is whether or not you like how it sounds.
You may prefer more mid freq response in a Fender Twin than you do in a 50 Watt "plexi". The next player may prefer the exact opposite.
The rest is just nonsense. Where a Speaker was made, or where the amp was made is meaningless. There are plenty of American made speakers with a pronounced mid range.
If this is all about a Celestion vs. Jensen from 1969......those days are long gone. Lots of other to choose from today. Much more intelligent to talk about freq response than American or British.
Or discussing speaker tone based on the color of the sticker on the magnet.....
best

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Well I like a lot of low mid growl from a speaker and the highs not so piercing. Im not sure if that would fall under british or american but I do want to try the Swamp Thang speaker or the GT 12 V 30 copy

 

[everdrone]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

thanks all

This is the type of feedback that I needed! In the next year I am planning to get Neodymiums in my Orange 212PPC closed back cab. I play heavy downtuned-to-C# rock. I do not have problems with my back and weightlift and use a backbrace, but I want to avoid any problems, so I want to make my cab weigh 12 pounds less. Speaker frequency graphs are in the links below for each speaker. So I am considering replacing my V30s with:

Celestion G12 Century Vintage http://celestion.com/product/14/g12_century_vintage/

Eminence Tonkerlite http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Tonkerlite_16.pdf

Eminence Lil' Texas http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Lil_Texas_16.pdf

here is a good article on neodymium speakers http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/4-neodymium-speakers/8492 based on Ya'll's comments, I think the G12 Century Vintage is winning out as my choice

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

I place the root cause of the voicing definitions to the arrival of the first Marshall JTM45. The circuitry is strongly influenced by the Fender Bassman, just built using components readily available in Britain. Different valves (tubes), running at different voltages into different loudspeakers, mounted in different cabinets. Several minor variables adding up to a characteristic and different sound.

 

[JeffB]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

VOX was building amps long hefore Marshall...

Celestion, Pete Townshend and Blackmore have alot to do with British sound we think of today...the speakers of course, but the influence on Jim)/Ken by their more vocal customers....closed backs...louder amps, more gain.

 

[TeleLubber]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Don't forget .. not only speaker types but..
British sound may also refer to EL84, EL34 tubes & closed back cabs..
whereas American refers to 6L6 and open back cabs..

'Course this is all a generalization..

 

[everdrone]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

thanks bruthas, I definitely like the closed back el34 sound, and any generalization that favors this sentiment. I really dug the idea that my amp is likely based around the V30 speaker EQ curve, so I should get a similar EQ curved speaker, which results in me wanting the Celestion Neodymium Century Vintage

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Re: What is "American Flavor"? What is "British Flavor"? What is the voicing differ

Don't forget .. not only speaker types but..
British sound may also refer to EL84, EL34 tubes & closed back cabs..
whereas American refers to 6L6 and open back cabs..

'Course this is all a generalization..

EL84 tubes are not British in and of themselves...Gibson and several other companies were making amps with those tubes a few years before Vox existed.