What is it about these pickups

[Tonebro]

that give them that vowel-like thing you can feel in your throat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMrbz_gsYSk

I have a pair of Seth Lovers I still haven't installed because I'm not certain they'll give me that tone. Antiquities might be closer. SD customer service says the Greenie pickups are degaussed like the Antiquities. Maybe that's where it comes from.

But I still can't shake the thought that Green's tone would have been closer to the Seth Lovers... because when he produced that same throat-tingling tone, the pickups in his LP were still new, not 40 years old.

I don't think it's just the out of phase thing either. I can hear it on Green's stuff when he's only using one pickup, too. I know it partially comes from how the guitar is played, but the pickups accentuate it, I think. Take this. You can hear it in the beginning when he's using just the neck pickup, when he's playing the bridge, and when he plays OOP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvvClumbDg

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: What is it about these pickups

I think the biggest thing in the first video, other than the Greenie pickups, is the style that is being played. There are a lot of double stops and string bends where one string doesn't bend, but the string next to it is being bent up to pitch and the vibrato is very aggressive. I think that style is accentuating the tone very much. How the video was produced may have something to do with it also.

I have a Greenie set and I can tell you this; they are the best set of PAF pickups that I've tried so far. Each pickup on it's own is fantastic. I can't get the tones in the middle like on the SD video, but the tones you hear on the Fleetwood Mac link you posted are in them for sure. I honestly don't use the middle position a lot, because that's not a tone in most of the music I'm playing now. If I were playing true blues based music a lot I would use it more. For classic rock and hard rock, these are fantastic. They are currently my favorite SD pickups, and I have Antiquities, Seth Lovers, Pearly Gates and a bunch of other's just sitting in my pickup bin.

All of the tones you hear are in these pickups, you just have to make sure your playing style compliments them to bring the tones out. Separately, they are the best neck and bridge pickups I've played, in the PAF range. Make sure they are not wax potted though.

Good luck.

Edit... you could just flip the magnet in the neck pickup of your Seth Lovers and see how you like it. Greenie's pickups were 10 years old in that Fleetwood Mac recording, but it seems to have been a really hard 10 years. They didn't take care of their guitars like we do. They were left in trunks, closets, garages and lord knows where subjected to massive temperature extremes. 10 years of that is like 25-30 years of what we consider normal.... maybe more.

 

[Tonebro]

Re: What is it about these pickups

I think the biggest thing in the first video, other than the Greenie pickups, is the style that is being played. There are a lot of double stops and string bends where one string doesn't bend, but the string next to it is being bent up to pitch and the vibrato is very aggressive. I think that style is accentuating the tone very much. How the video was produced may have something to do with it also.

All of the tones you hear are in these pickups, you just have to make sure your playing style compliments them to bring the tones out. Separately, they are the best neck and bridge pickups I've played, in the PAF range. Make sure they are not wax potted though.

I know what you mean. Back when I first started playing guitar, my all-mahogany Epiphone LP with really crappy humbuckers would produce the same effect when played the right way. It was really neat, actually. Almost like a wah pedal.

I have a Greenie set and I can tell you this; they are the best set of PAF pickups that I've tried so far. Each pickup on it's own is fantastic. I can't get the tones in the middle like on the SD video, but the tones you hear on the Fleetwood Mac link you posted are in them for sure. I honestly don't use the middle position a lot, because that's not a tone in most of the music I'm playing now. If I were playing true blues based music a lot I would use it more. For classic rock and hard rock, these are fantastic. They are currently my favorite SD pickups, and I have Antiquities, Seth Lovers, Pearly Gates and a bunch of other's just sitting in my pickup bin.

You've pretty much sold me on them here. I haven't been able to find anyone who's compared the Greenies to Seth Lovers (or anything else really). I love the tone he gets and while I can see that other PAFs are very similar, they're just not the same.

Edit... you could just flip the magnet in the neck pickup of your Seth Lovers and see how you like it. Greenie's pickups were 10 years old in that Fleetwood Mac recording, but it seems to have been a really hard 10 years. They didn't take care of their guitars like we do. They were left in trunks, closets, garages and lord knows where subjected to massive temperature extremes. 10 years of that is like 25-30 years of what we consider normal.... maybe more.

I suspected that, but I wasn't sure if any of that had to do with magnet-aging. I had assumed it was merely time that did it, but I can definitely hear it (or something like it) after an A/B comparison of PGFM to Antiquities and Seth Lovers. There's no question his tone is (or is like) an aged or slightly degaussed magnet.

Thanks for your reply. It really helped!

 

[Nagisa]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Funny enough on my a LP I recently magnet swapped my bridge custom again back to ceramic, and I guess it put it out of phase with my pearly gates. I definitely get a sound similar to the one on the first vid, though not quite as clean due to the custom. I may just keep it this way as a rare effect as I just never play the middle position on my lp anyways.

Why haven’t you tried the seths yet? Are you trying to keep them in new condition to sell or something? If they’re used or you have the return policy I say try them out. Otherwise go for the greenies as it looks like you would be happy with them




The

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: What is it about these pickups

I think the magnet aging definitely has an effect on the sound of the Greenie's, but if you want to get an idea of what the Greenie pickups sounded like right from the factory, flipping the magnet in the Seth neck is as close as you'll ever get. It's a worthwhile endeavor unless you're returning the Seth's or trying to keep them pristine for another reason.

I don't think you will at all be disappointed in the Greenie set. They make me smile every time I play them. There is just something unique and slightly different about them, just as great bridge and neck pickups. You'll have to let us know what you think after you get them installed and try them out.

Edit..... the Seth Lovers are my favorite off the shelf PAF pickup. I love the clarity and the touch sensitivity, but they aren't cold or clinical. There is a warmth within that clarity. The Greenie's just have something extra.

 

[Tonebro]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Haven't tried them because I don't want to spend the money to have them installed if they're not going to give me that specific tone. (I would install them myself, but I also have a wiring kit and switch I want to install too, but I've never soldered anything in my life and don't want to mess anything up in my Gibson.) Instead I could sell them and spend a little extra on the Greenie pickups which seem to get it just right. If I could find a sound clip or video where the musician uses Seths in a Les Paul through a Fender amp playing clean blues a la BB King or Peter Green it would give me a definitive direction of which way to go: keep the Seths or sell them and get Greenies. Unfortunately everyone on the Tube, if they're using Seths in a Les Paul, are also using Marshalls or distortion pedals. So none of it helps. Also, apparently no one on the entire Internet talks about the tone of Green's pickups as such, they only ever talk about the out of phase bit, which is really frustrating.

Here's the other version of the song posted above in which you can hear it in each respective pickup. I really have no idea why no one ever talks about it. It's so unique. I guess you could say I'm wanting a pair of Seths that have that nasally tone that sounds like a Jewish grandmother. Nasally, honky, quacky, however else that particular vowel-like, throat-tingling definition that somehow almost sounds like a human voice can be described.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O20RiP1NwM

 

[AlexR]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Good chunk of that tone will be the amp.......

 

[Artie]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Haven't tried them because I don't want to spend the money to have them installed if they're not going to give me that specific tone.

Just a thought, but I'd think you'd be a perfect candidate for the Liberator system. Get a good tech to install that, then you can do whatever pup swaps you want with the supplied screwdriver. Not only that, but you can reverse the polarity in seconds, just by reversing the black and green wires.

Having just said that, it occurs to me that the reason they flipped the mag, on Green's pups and/or the Seth's, is because they're 2-conductor cables. You can probably order Seth's with a 4-cond cable, but if you already have them, that won't help.

That 1st video, with Danny Young, was killer. Anyone know if that backing track is available somewhere?

 

[Mincer]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Just a thought, but I'd think you'd be a perfect candidate for the Liberator system. Get a good tech to install that, then you can do whatever pup swaps you want with the supplied screwdriver. Not only that, but you can reverse the polarity in seconds, just by reversing the black and green wires.

Having just said that, it occurs to me that the reason they flipped the mag, on Green's pups and/or the Seth's, is because they're 2-conductor cables. You can probably order Seth's with a 4-cond cable, but if you already have them, that won't help.

That 1st video, with Danny Young, was killer. Anyone know if that backing track is available somewhere?

Yeah, this seems like a great candidate for the Liberator, and also, while you are waiting and researching, start to learn to solder. There are tons of tutorials out there, and it is a great skill for every guitarist to have. As far as the Greenies vs the Seths, I haven't tried them out in the same guitar. But other than the out-of-phase thing (which is a sound I think I'd ever use), I think they are pretty close, especially with the right amp settings and style of playing. That being said, if you are obsessing over the Greenies, just get them and sell the Seths so you can focus on playing instead.

 

[raistlin]

Re: What is it about these pickups

A Seth Lover bridge sounds pretty close, although I feel most of the tone is in Green's / Kirwan's touch.

Since you already have Seth's why not keep them for awhile first?

p/s With the Seth's IME the tone is in the pick attack, it get "flabby / bland" with a lazy hand to "articulate / blooming" once you pick with... "intent". I have mine very low so YMMV.

 

[Artie]

Re: What is it about these pickups

But other than the out-of-phase thing (which is a sound I don't think I'd ever use)

Fixed. (I think.)

Did anyone notice that Danny Young had the neck pup rotated 180 deg's in that 1st video. Wonder why?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Fixed. (I think.)

Did anyone notice that Danny Young had the neck pup rotated 180 deg's in that 1st video. Wonder why?

Because that's how they're designed to work from the custom shop. When I ordered my set there was a note in with the set reminding me to install the neck pickup in the reverse orientation. Seymour may have wound the slug and screw coils in reverse or differently than a normal humbucker to achieve the tone he was after. Also, it's true to the look of the original "Greenie" LP, which has the neck pickup reversed. I've misplaced the note I received though. :-(

If you flip around a regular HB in the neck, you get a tad more brightness vs the warmth of the normal position.

 

[Artie]

Re: What is it about these pickups

Ah. Thanks for the info Jeff.