What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amps?

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Are you asking what the difference between modeling and a tube amp with a distortion pedal in front is?

Am I asking? No. I’m saying why have a tube amp if your not using it for distortion? People like to talk about tubes sounding better than solid state, but then they use an op amp and a few diodes for distortion. Lol.

And the difference is a modeling amp sounds like a cranked up tube amp. And it can also sound like a over drive pedal in front of a tube amp.

I’ve been playing 48 years. I’ve played through just about everything at this point. Now I carry around a much lighter amp that can sound like 14 different amps. Works for me and my 60 year old back! Lol


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[Van Noord]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Am I asking? No. I’m saying why have a tube amp if your not using it for distortion? People like to talk about tubes sounding better than solid state, but then they use an op amp and a few diodes for distortion. Lol.

Because tube warmth and feel also comes from the power section. Using a pedal as a preamp into a tube power amp will sound better than a pedal into a solid state power app 10 out of 10 times.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Because tube warmth and feel also comes from the power section. Using a pedal as a preamp into a tube power amp will sound better than a pedal into a solid state power app 10 out of 10 times.

And not a single person listening will know the difference. The power section only matters when you are pushing the amp hard. You never do that when you are playing clean.

I’ve stood right next to, and played, a Fractal rig dialed in to sound like a Mesa, which was right next to it. The only difference was the Fractal had better note definition. I did the same with my Vox modeling amp and a real AC15.

The rest is in people’s minds.


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[Willy25]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Given the choice between a 6505 and Blackstar, I'd take the 6505. The few Blackstars I've played through had far more gain than necessary and it came at the price of clarity. When I play I like to hear what I'm actually playing, as opposed to a wall of compressed mush. I'd also stay away from Bugera as I've heard that they have reliability / durability issues. If you're looking for an inexpensive high gain tube amp, it's hard to beat Jet City. I have their 22H and that thing is brutal; I no longer want a Mini Rectifier or Rectoverb. Also don't rule out the used market. I'm not sure where you are, but in most of the US used 6505 heads can be had for $450-600.

Wow that Jet City sounds brutal, just watched some youtube videos. Does it need a boost? To get a modern metal tone?

I was talking about the 6505 combo.

Actually Bugera just fix those technical problems they use to have in the past.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Am I asking? No. I’m saying why have a tube amp if your not using it for distortion? People like to talk about tubes sounding better than solid state, but then they use an op amp and a few diodes for distortion. Lol.

And the difference is a modeling amp sounds like a cranked up tube amp. And it can also sound like a over drive pedal in front of a tube amp.

I’ve been playing 48 years. I’ve played through just about everything at this point. Now I carry around a much lighter amp that can sound like 14 different amps. Works for me and my 60 year old back! Lol

Peer pressure. If the masses believe in tube amps, then tube amp it is. Nobody wants to be ostracized cause he prefers solid state. Besides, like someone said just recently, most of us here are hobbyists (professional hobbysts? Lol...), and of course, we are more demanding than touring professionals when it comes to gear....ha..ha...

We can theorize all we want about preamp/ poweramp/ mojo crap, but nothing beats experience... The way I see it, in most cases, what should work on paper doesn't materialize in reality.

 

[dystrust]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Wow that Jet City sounds brutal, just watched some youtube videos. Does it need a boost? To get a modern metal tone?

IMO a Jet City doesn't need a boost for modern metal tone, though you might want to use a TS to tighten up the low end regardless. You'll definitely want a higher output pickup; an SH-5 Custom is one of my favorites with this amp.

I'm able to get an Alice in Chains style rhythm sound with the gain around 1 o'clock on the lead channel. For saturated lead sounds I run the gain at 2-3 o'clock, any higher and it's too compressed for my tastes. The rhythm channel will do clean-ish if the gain is 8 o'clock or less, otherwise it's a bit overdriven. I usually run it around 2 o'clock for a JCM800-ish crunch tone and ride my volume knob for clean. Lower output pickups sound great too and have more headroom, but you're not going to get the same sort of heavy tones with them.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you'll probably want to change the stock preamp tubes. The stock tubes are labeled 'China 12AX7B' and they're pretty harsh and grainy. This thing loves JJ ECC83s, and I'd recommend them for V1-V3 in the preamp. V4 is the effects loop buffer and V5 is the phase inverter, so the stock tubes are fine there. I also haven't bothered swapping the stock EL-84s.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

1) Klon Centaur

2) Tube amps (and a well made SS) have more mojo then amp emulating software. Modeling amps haven't gotten good enough to appeal to a large amount of guitarists (this is based off of soley my own experience). Plus I like the analog nature of amps, I am quite the modder and amplifiers appeal to that nature.

Pros like Steve Vai, Petrucci, and the rest of Axe-Fx guys could use a few ear trainings from you.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Peer pressure. If the masses believe in tube amps, then tube amp it is. Nobody wants to be ostracized cause he prefers solid state. Besides, like someone said just recently, most of us here are hobbyists (professional hobbysts? Lol...), and of course, we are more demanding than touring professionals when it comes to gear....ha..ha...

We can theorize all we want about preamp/ poweramp/ mojo crap, but nothing beats experience... The way I see it, in most cases, what should work on paper doesn't materialize in reality.

Yeah I just care about the sounds I’m getting. And I’m not trying to get the same tone as this person or that person. At this point I’m only playing original music. So I want to sound like me and not some other person.

My core tone sounds like a cranked Marshall. That I get with no problem.

I actually went with a modeling amp because a standard amp and pedals won’t get the range of sounds I got on our album. Not without jumping through hoops. So this is the only solution.

If someone is just using the same tone all night long, and playing typical rock or blues, they are ok with what ever they are using.


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[Willy25]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

That's cool, you can get a Marshall tone! I'll take a look more into a Jet City. Thanks dude.

 

[chadd]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

For me, the most overrated stuff is the stuff that some people in this topic love; modeling and multi effects units.

I've tried a bunch of modeling amps, I just can't get the tones I want out of them as easily as I can with my Mesa amps. As for effects, I use them sparingly, and can easily live without them.

If that stuff works for someone else, and they get the sounds they want, great for them. I won't try to convince them to change, it would be nice if they would just do the same for the rest of us.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Rickenbacker guitars

T-top pickups

Klon pedals

Dumble amps

...off the top of my head.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Pros like Steve Vai, Petrucci, and the rest of Axe-Fx guys could use a few ear trainings from you.

Did you read the part in parenthesis about that assumption being based off my own experience? There may be a lot of people who like modeling amps, but from what I've seen, there are a lot more people that prefer tube amps.

For other readers, there are more than just two quality musicians that have used modeling amps on records that are known for their tone. After a lengthy search, the only one I could find is The Edge. There may be others across the Metal and Indie community, but I know little about them.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

And not a single person listening will know the difference. The power section only matters when you are pushing the amp hard. You never do that when you are playing clean.

I’ve stood right next to, and played, a Fractal rig dialed in to sound like a Mesa, which was right next to it. The only difference was the Fractal had better note definition. I did the same with my Vox modeling amp and a real AC15.

The rest is in people’s minds.


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Its quite bold to make claims for others, and assume that just because you can't decifer something, the next guy won't be able to either. Its also parochial to think guitar tone only has to do with sound...

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amps?

Its also parochial to think guitar tone only has to do with sound...

Tone - “noun - a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength: the piano tone appears monochrome or lacking in warmth.”

Yeah, tone is the sound of something.

Everyone hears sounds differently. But in general most guitarists use the same sounds/tones as everyone else, depending on the style of music they play.

And my observation is many guitarists that say they want a “warm” tone actually don’t like treble. Maybe it’s easy to hide poor technique that way? I don’t know. Lol

I think we can all accept that your “tone” comes from your hands and how you play. Just because one person can’t get a particular amp to sound good doesn’t mean it’s the amp.

And my personal feeling is many guitarists (more so than bassist) are stuck in the past and hate new technology.

The rest of your post made no sense. Go back and re-read it.


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[Perry go round]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

I dont want to deal with firmware updates, actualizing software to the new version, bugs in the software that makes your gear fail so you need to download some patch, buying a new version of sometjing because yours is outdated and will be no longer supported, etc... I have been through this kind of stuff and I prefer analog because it saves headhaches. You buy, you plug, you play, you sound good and it lasts for your lifetime with limited care and attention needed.
Digital stuff, you spend more time in front of the computer swearing on the family of some software developer than playing, IME.
Hopefully the day will come when software-based stuff will work properly for a lifetime without needing to update o mess im the computer trying to fix anything. But I dont feel like living in that day by now.

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[Van Noord]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Tone - “noun - a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength: the piano tone appears monochrome or lacking in warmth.”

Yeah, tone is the sound of something.

Everyone hears sounds differently. But in general most guitarists use the same sounds/tones as everyone else, depending on the style of music they play.

And my observation is many guitarists that say they want a “warm” tone actually don’t like treble. Maybe it’s easy to hide poor technique that way? I don’t know. Lol

I think we can all accept that your “tone” comes from your hands and how you play. Just because one person can’t get a particular amp to sound good doesn’t mean it’s the amp.

And my personal feeling is many guitarists (more so than bassist) are stuck in the past and hate new technology.

The rest of your post made no sense. Go back and re-read it.


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Don't go too literal on me. You knew exactly what I meant. Funny, I think your post makes zero sense as well. But then again, I could never mesh with clinical minded guitarists who advocate synthetic solutions to human expression. Sorry, I must be continuing to confuse your black and white outlook and comprehension related to creating music. Lol!

 

[Jacew]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Tube amps. High end modeling amps sound just as good, are more flexible (i.e. can replicate 100 classic amps and also make new sounds), are more reliable and sound great at all volumes. I get that they're expensive because of the output transformers and build quality required to be even slightly reliable, but I think they've become some mythical beast that people can't approach rationally anymore. I'd dare people to take a blindfolded test before talking about intangible things like mojo.

Also, overdrive and distortion pedals always seem overpriced and overrated. They've got 50 cents worth of components in them and they're almost all just a tiny variation of the same circuit.

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I'm not going to enter the debate about tone, but I have to call you about this. By what logic are they more reliable? Once something breaks down in digital amp, you can't fix it yourself. If you find someone who can, it'll cost fortune. And there still chance of some followup problem reappearing any day, as we know from computer world.

In tube amp you just change the broken components, set it up, and are good to go.

About maintenance, we can argue whether it's easier to change tubes or update and set up modeler. I say former is by far and I'm 25. I can't imagine how people twice or more of my age feel about it.

I think the most overrated piece of gear is whatever’s being discussed on the Internet right now. I think a lot of players offer their “reviews” without appreciating their own limitations as reviewers. It’s fine to post your opinions on a wah pedal, for example, but let’s say you just bought it. And it’s the only wah pedal you’ve ever owned. Or maybe played through. Of course it’s amazing. Of course you don’t know of any better wah pedals on the market. Of course it’s the best.

All this is part of the reason why I haven’t said too much about new gear purchases for a while. I know many on this forum have a lot more experience with different gear than I do, so I’ve tried to rein in the fawning praise and the absolutes.

First wah I bought I thought to be horrid.

I completely agree. It's really annoying how people cannot count in their own psychological bias. Reviews in internet are the most obvious, but you run to it everywhere.

 

[Mincer]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Be nice to each other. This discussion seemed to be about opinion and not absolutes. Let's respect each other.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

Be nie to each other. This discussion seemed to be about opinion and not absolutes. Let's respect each other.

But I added lol! so that makes everything peachy!:18:

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: What is the most overrated piece of gear? And why do most guitarist still use amp

You buy, you plug, you play, you sound good and it lasts for your lifetime with limited care and attention needed.

That’s exactly what my modeling amp does. Plus I don’t have to replace tubes.

Digital stuff, you spend more time in front of the computer swearing on the family of some software developer than playing, IME.
Hopefully the day will come when software-based stuff will work properly for a lifetime without needing to update o mess im the computer trying to fix anything. But I dont feel like living in that day by now.

That’s not my experience at all. Everything just works. Same with my DAW.

I have digital effects units from the 80s. They haven’t stopped working.


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