What makes a good 4x12?

[BloodRose]

How do you determine what cab is right for you? Many amps have matched cabs. However, I always hear players say they prefer this cab or that.
Marshall 1960 cabs seem real popular. I use a Carvin MTS 4x12 cuz it was resonably priced with a PV Ultra plus amp. Sounds ok, but I wonder if Im getting the most of the head..??
Any tips??
Thanks

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Fingerjointed Birch plywood with real deal speakers.

Stay away from particle board and licensed speakers.

Most of all...you get what you pay for.

 

[zero element]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

I got the same problem. Ive got a Peavey Ultra 60 with a Carvin 4x12 that was fairly cheap used. Ive heard the Ultra 60 before and it sounded great but when I play through mine its ultra gain channel just doesn't have the balls it had when I heard with a different cab.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

I've several cabs over the last couple of years and all of them were good at their thing, but it depends on what sound you want. Construction MUST be important, for a good solid sound that projects and spreads/ directs the sound .. and good speakers that work with the type amp AND style of cab. I found recently that where Greenbacks are great in a closed cab, they're not so great in an open/ ported back cab. Of the cabs i've had here's a brief summary of what I found (note all these cabs except the 4 x 10 were/ are closed back although I tried a part open back on the Orange just for to see!):

Marshall JCM800 with GT75's - Good projection, very clear but no natural break up.. so not good for use with my JTM45's at the time.

Marshall R.I Purple Hendrix with Greenbacks - Good projection, GREAT sound.. I sold it 'coz the rear panel was only chipboard and I now wish I had just made another rear panel! Looked the DOGS with the white R.I head too... Dohhhh

Mesa Boogie 2 x 12 Recto with V30's - VERY solid, sounded FANTASTIC in isolation.. but when played in a band situation it just got lost it was that dark. Also, it was VERY directional.. i.e stand right in front of it... you can hear it, but move slightly out of the line of fire and SH!T... were's my sound! Had to go......

Mesa Boogie 4 x 12 with V30's - believe it or not... same problem as above! Has to be one of the beastliest cabs around... but again VERY directional!
The problems I had with both the Mesa cabs lead me to think it was the V30's that sucked... more of that in a minute.

Mongotone Mahogony 4 x 10 - with Vintage 10's. This cab is simply awesome, beautifully made and a full rich sound that cuts through the mix AND you can hear it no matter where you stand!! ONLY PROBLEM... just too darn good to beat up... it really is the best cab I've ever heard!! So, because this is SO nice.... I got...

70's Orange 4 x 12 with OLD Greenbacks - what can I say... FANTASTIC cab! The sound is real vintage classic rock.. the spread of sound is NOT as good as the 4 x 10 but MUCH better than a Mesa. Very warm sounding and very solid... the heaviest cab I've ever had the (dis)pleasure to HUMP about

Ok, my amps are built by Cornford, hand built and great sounding. The Only amp I would consider selling these for is Bognor.. that's it! Anyway, I ALWAYS wanted a Cornford 4 x 12 to go with my amps, but as they are (A) Not cheap and (B) are loaded with V30's I thought I'll not bother. However, saw one on the BAY at the right price and thought I'd take a chance.. WOW... glad I did. Build is great, sound and spread of sound great... AND low and behold it does NOT sound DARK like the Mesa cabs????

The bottom line is that you need to take your amp into a store and try it with various cabs, but as was pointed out to me.. the top amp manufacturers sell matching cabs for a good reason, they've tried and tested them to match the amps!

Sorry for the long post, but I've had so many problems with cabs I just thought I'd share my experiences. All the best.

 

[Brewtone]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Most of all...you get what you pay for.

This sums it up, to a 'T'. Budget cabs aren't bad and they have their place but a high end cab will make all the difference. I remember playing my 5150 half stack in the early 90's and I thought it sounded great. In 1996 when I bought my Slash jubilee half stack, I couldn't believe how much better the 5150 sounded through the Vintage 30 equipped marshall cab. Over the years I've purchased a bogner and splawn 4X12 cabs and those are a step up from the Marshall cabs.


My advice is buy within your budget for the time but when you can upgrade don't overlook the cab!!!

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

My first cab was a 77-ish Marshall 4x12. I still have it. I've used plenty of cabs, but this cab works for me.

One thing I thought was interesting, guitar players in my last band both had H&K Vortex half stacks. They sounded fine with their cabs, the heads were well matched to the cabinets. The heads sounded like crap through my cab, and my head sounded like crap through either of their cabs.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

First, let me disclaimer 1 thing... I didnt buy the Carvin cab only cuz it was cheap. Supposedly the construction is good too. And, at the time I had a Carvin MTS amp. So the purchase was not just cost driven as my orig post may have seemed. If I was just going for cheap, I would have gotten the Behringer for $299. The Behringer was tempting cuz it had Jensen speakers, but I had no idea how the cab itself was constructed.
I just wanted to mention that.. Thanks

 

[BloodRose]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

The bottom line is that you need to take your amp into a store and try it with various cabs, but as was pointed out to me.. the top amp manufacturers sell matching cabs for a good reason, they've tried and tested them to match the amps!

Sorry for the long post, but I've had so many problems with cabs I just thought I'd share my experiences. All the best.

No apologies Bro! Good info!! Thanks!!! The line I quoted is one of the key factors of my post. Do the matching cabs always sound better? As Brewtone posted, looks like thats not always the case..

Brew, you say the splawn cabs are good??

Man, this is a tough call..

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Marshall R.I Purple Hendrix with Greenbacks - Good projection, GREAT sound.. I sold it 'coz the rear panel was only chipboard and I now wish I had just made another rear panel! Looked the DOGS with the white R.I head too... Dohhhh

To me, this is a problem with thinking too hard into the specs.

Marshall has used chipboard for their backs since... what 69/70?

It's not the top, bottom, sides or baffle... Maybe it'd make a difference, but if it sounds fine with the chipboard back... what's wrong?

Sort of like the "toothpick" fix for stripped screwholes. Thinking about it, that sounds really chintzy- sticking toothpicks and glue into a stripped hole. In reality, you're bonding the wood of the toothpicks to the body, the screw is biting into the bonded wood, pressing out against the body and it's a very strong fix. The alternative is to use a dowel plug. The grain has to be right in the dowel, the hole has to be drilled out, and when it's all said and done, the surface area that the screw is contacting, that the glue is bonding to the plug and everything... it's still maybe 'as good' as the toothpick fix.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

To me, this is a problem with thinking too hard into the specs.

Marshall has used chipboard for their backs since... what 69/70?

It's not the top, bottom, sides or baffle... Maybe it'd make a difference, but if it sounds fine with the chipboard back... what's wrong?

Sorry, should have also said that the jack socket was loose/ hanging off, and when I removed the back to fix it... the chipboard was all broken up.

The funny thing is my JCM800 4 x 12 didn't have a chipboard back, it WAS ply... that's why I was so disgusted really.. particularly as it was a Re-issue cab! Anyway, you live and learn... or so they say?

 

[thucydides]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

First, let me disclaimer 1 thing... I didnt buy the Carvin cab only cuz it was cheap. Supposedly the construction is good too. And, at the time I had a Carvin MTS amp. So the purchase was not just cost driven as my orig post may have seemed. If I was just going for cheap, I would have gotten the Behringer for $299. The Behringer was tempting cuz it had Jensen speakers, but I had no idea how the cab itself was constructed.
I just wanted to mention that.. Thanks

Carvin cabs are well constructed. My 4x12 Legacy cab was definitely sturdier than my Marshall RI 4x12. I don't think the difference was enough to affect the sound much, more of a roadworthy issue. The spks were the deciding factor for me when it came time to sell one of them. I kept the Marshall because I favoured the GBs over the Vin 30s that were in the Carvin cab. Strictly personal preference there!

Assuming that the cabs are decently constructed, it has always been a spkr preference issue for me.

Oh, yea, the toothpick thing suggested by The Golden Boy has always worked well for me too!

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Sorry, should have also said that the jack socket was loose/ hanging off, and when I removed the back to fix it... the chipboard was all broken up.

The funny thing is my JCM800 4 x 12 didn't have a chipboard back, it WAS ply... that's why I was so disgusted really.. particularly as it was a Re-issue cab! Anyway, you live and learn... or so they say?

That's a good reason to get rid of a cab.

Or, as you mentioned, a good reason to put a new back on it.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

At one time, I had a couple JCM 800/900 4-12 cabs, and kept hearing all the hoopla about changing the back panel, so I changed the back to plywood painted black. That cab sounded better than my other, so I did it to the other one as well. The sound was less likely to buckle under extreme thumping volume.

One thing that you see on some high quality cabs is Corning insulation glued to the back panel to kill standing waves. I've noticed that this treatment also kills 'cone cry' which is that buzzy resonating sound you can get when hitting one note on your guitar that causes the cab to resonate in an obnoxious way.

 

[Ascension]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

My current 4/12 is an old late 80's Yamaha from the series that Soldano designed for um. GREAT sounding 4/12!! It's loaded with GT75 Celestians and has a solid THUMPING bottom.
A good 4/12 will have plywood construction and not press board.
Your Carvin cab is solidly made but unless you grabbed a newer one with Celestians the factory speakers all leave a LOT to be desired on those!!
Solid cab lousy speakers for the most part and a speaker swap would do WONDERS most likely for your tones. I played through Carvin amps for years including the Valvemasters, X100B's and MTS's I know those lines well. Carvin speakers including the Gold back Vintage series, the Britts, the GT series and the GS's to my ear are all really lacking in tone.

 

[Stratman]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Back in 1972, I made a 4X12 cabinet using 11 ply solid birch marine plywood.

Fingerjointed with 1 inch oak backing at all joints

Floating speaker board stiffened with same 1 inch oak, but just in an area around the speakers circumference.

Corning fiberglass in the top and left side as well as the back.

Sounded super great with the Electro-Voice speakers that I installed which were the same one the Evans Bishop used with his twin reverb.


--------------

Problem - BACK KILLER it weight around 140 lbs.

 

[devastone]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

Construction is important. As far as you get what you pay for, I'm using Avatars, they are well made for the price. I know there are better cabs out there, I had an old Marshall straight cab when I lived in NC that was awesome, but I sold it when we moved to CO.

Speakers are at least as important as the cabinet. My first 4-12 was a KMD cabinet with Celestion speakers. I must have gone through 5 or 6 heads with that cabinet, I could never get the sound I wanted, but other people would play my head through other cabinets and tell me it sounded great. Yeah, maybe I was a little slow. The old 35W Celestions with the small magnets are some of the worst speakers I've ever heard. The cab was pretty funky too. I got rid of that cabinet for next to nothing and got the old Marshall, wow, night and day, lots of tone. I don't remember what speakers it had in it, probably G12T-75s, but still it was so much better. It was a very solid cabinet and had decent speakers.

Oh well, <$0.02, everything in the path matters. BTW, Carvin makes some very nice cabinets.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

My current 4/12 is an old late 80's Yamaha from the series that Soldano designed for um. GREAT sounding 4/12!! It's loaded with GT75 Celestians and has a solid THUMPING bottom.
A good 4/12 will have plywood construction and not press board.
Your Carvin cab is solidly made but unless you grabbed a newer one with Celestians the factory speakers all leave a LOT to be desired on those!!
Solid cab lousy speakers for the most part and a speaker swap would do WONDERS most likely for your tones. I played through Carvin amps for years including the Valvemasters, X100B's and MTS's I know those lines well. Carvin speakers including the Gold back Vintage series, the Britts, the GT series and the GS's to my ear are all really lacking in tone.

Yeah, it was my understanding that the cab was well made. I got one of the early ones with the British series speakers.
Ive actually considered getting a VAI cab since those come with Celestions.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

One thing that you see on some high quality cabs is Corning insulation glued to the back panel to kill standing waves. I've noticed that this treatment also kills 'cone cry' which is that buzzy resonating sound you can get when hitting one note on your guitar that causes the cab to resonate in an obnoxious way.

Joneser, tell me if this is what you are describing: On my Les Paul especially, but sometimes on my Jackson, notes on the G-string, played alone between the nut and about the 12th fret have this tendency. Nowhere else, though. Is this the Cone Cry of which you speak? I've never heard of this phenomenon, but it seems to be prevalent with this rig I'm playing now - but not with my Line 6. Basically, has this sort of spanky sound, but when I add some vibrato it goes away.

BTW Jonesey, I just pulled the trigger on a Splawn 2x12. Yeah, I know, you told me so... whatever bro I figured I should just complete the picture.

-Matt

 

[jeremy]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

im building a solid pine 4x12 cab for a friend of mine right now and so far i think itll be great. finger jointed void free pine for the sides, top and bottom with a birch ply baffle and back.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: What makes a good 4x12?

im building a solid pine 4x12 cab for a friend of mine right now and so far i think itll be great. finger jointed void free pine for the sides, top and bottom with a birch ply baffle and back.

Pine good for cabs?? Seems like birch or poplar are the most popular..
Whatcha using for speakers? Pics??
Make one for me?? :naughty: