What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

[shredaholic]

Putting aside QC issues, player associations, pickups, scarcity, and the ageing process of the wood (these guitars were highly regarded from the late 60's), what makes a '58-'60 burst Les Paul so highly regarded by players as the source of all that is good in the realm of LP tone, and stops a modern Gibson sounding as good?

Is it to do with the type of wood used (ie Brazillian rosewood, density)? Is it the composition of metal in the hardware?

...or is it all hype? :eek13:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Good wood that is completely dried out, thin finish, the best combination of construction and parts.......

And last but not least, because some blues lawyer on the LP Forum who's been playing for 3 years, yet owns 6 Historics loaded with RS Wiring kits, Lollars, Holmes, and Rolphs, said so. LOL

 

[Voxman]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

the paf was introduced in 57 and the lp got the sg design in late 61!
Back in the late 50`s gibson did`nt massproduce the guitars as they do today.
When the sg arrived the lp w/tuneomatic and paf became hard to get pretty soon. That`s how simple it is.
Infact many new guitars sound as good as the old ones,the old ones just have a different sound. IMO
Edit: old wood sounds great,but i think many custom shop guitars have the same ressonance

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Check out the Ultimate LP Tone thread, maybe that will helps you?

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=62471

I'm with Joe on woods, woods and woods, and finish. Of course there are construction differences as well.

Luke

 

[shredaholic]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

The thing is though, if wood sounds best completely dried out, isn't there some sort of process that could be done to wood to make it that way?

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Good wood that is completely dried out, thin finish, the best combination of construction and parts.......

And last but not least, because some blues lawyer on the LP Forum who's been playing for 3 years, yet owns 6 Historics loaded with RS Wiring kits, Lollars, Holmes, and Rolphs, said so. LOL

Agree 100%

The more that any guitar ages and settles the better it will sound, this is overly simplified but for the most part very true. Add up the combination of aged good wood/hardware, nitro finish and aged pups(degaused mags) and you are going to get a more resonant and tonefull guitar.

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

The thing is though, if wood sounds best completely dried out, isn't there some sort of process that could be done to wood to make it that way?

Yep, kiln dried before manufacturing. Or blow on it really really hard....till you turn blue. LOL

 

[B2D]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

I've had the extreme privelige of actually playing a '59 Burst for about 5 minutes. It belongs to one of the luthiers for Tyler guitars...

Trust me when I say that everything RIGHT about electric guitars was in this instrument. No other guitar I've played even came close to the vibe this thing had. And it felt NOTHING like a brand new one or even a Reissue, Historic, etc... the thing practically played itself and just oozed fat delicious raw vintage rock tone. It was quite an experience, to say the least.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Great woods, very small production runs in the 50's compared to the way guitars are cranked out by the zillions today and, IMO, BRAZILIAN ROSEWOOD fingerboards.

Brazilian really does sound more complex compared to Indian Rosewood and has a unique tone that we recognize as "vintage".

Lew

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Great woods, very small production runs in the 50's compared to the way guitars are cranked out by the zillions today and, IMO, BRAZILIAN ROSEWOOD fingerboards.

Brazilian really does sound more complex compared to Indian Rosewood and has a unique tone that we recognize as "vintage".

Lew

Lew, what tonally is different about the Brazilian vs. other rosewood?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Lew, what tonally is different about the Brazilian vs. other rosewood?

Hard to explain...words aren't the same as hearing for yourself. Sort of like trying to describe what an orange tastes like compared to a tangerine to someone who has tasted neither!:laugh2:

Brazilian has more mids and more complexity and texture to those mids compared to Indian which sounds great but sounds slightly less "woody", less multidimensional, less "chewy" and less "plucky".

Lew

 

[shredaholic]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

The reason I ask this is because I'm planning to build a Warmoth LP, mainly to bypass QC issues, get more guitar for my money (LP's are so damn expensive here) and get the satisfaction of having a great sounding guitar that I've designed/assembled/painted myself.

The two main things I know I'm going for looking at the Warmoth options are the Brazillian Rosewood fretboard and a one piece mahogany body under that 2 piece maple top. Every thing else (obviously aside from the bolt-on neck) I'd like to be what it needs to be to get that 'sound'. I'm aware I won't get 100% exact because of the bolt-on, but as a great sounding guitar is the sum of it's parts, hopefully getting everything else made great would equal a great sounding guitar.

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

I think that you did a pretty good job of describing it Lew, thanks.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

The reason I ask this is because I'm planning to build a Warmoth LP, mainly to bypass QC issues, get more guitar for my money (LP's are so damn expensive here) and get the satisfaction of having a great sounding guitar that I've designed/assembled/painted myself.

The two main things I know I'm going for looking at the Warmoth options are the Brazillian Rosewood fretboard and a one piece mahogany body under that 2 piece maple top. Every thing else (obviously aside from the bolt-on neck) I'd like to be what it needs to be to get that 'sound'. I'm aware I won't get 100% exact because of the bolt-on, but as a great sounding guitar is the sum of it's parts, hopefully getting everything else made great would equal a great sounding guitar.

You're not going to get a guitar that sounds like a Les Paul if you go for the bolt on neck. You're also not going to get a guitar with much resale value.

I'd reconsider this...

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

You're not going to get a guitar that sounds like a Les Paul if you go for the bolt on neck. You're also not going to get a guitar with much resale value.

I'd reconsider this...

Agreed, a lot of the tone is in the set neck. And the reality is that you could pick up an LP studio for less than you can build a Warmoth LP. The Studio's are great guitars and the real deal, IMHO.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Agreed, a lot of the tone is in the set neck. And the reality is that you could pick up an LP studio for less than you can build a Warmoth LP. The Studio's are great guitars and the real deal, IMHO.

Not here - it'd cost less for a new Warmoth build with a great spec including tax and shipping than it would for a new Studio. All the Gibson LP studio's I've played were pretty poor in terms of construction quality.

Besides, even though it might not have the sound of a glued joint, by making the rest of it with the spec of the best Les Paul, wouldn't that still make an awesome guitar?

You're also not going to get a guitar with much resale value.

I'd never buy a guitar thinking of resale value - I like to get guitars that I'm going to keep and never sell.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

I'd never buy a guitar thinking of resale value - I like to get guitars that I'm going to keep and never sell.

Yeah...I know just what you mean. I've owned many guitars I felt that way about. And sometimes I wonder: who's playing them now!?!? :eek13: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[Voxman]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

Yeah...I know just what you mean. I've owned many guitars I felt that way about. And sometimes I wonder: who's playing them now!?!? :eek13: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

How about those late 50`s paulas Lew,how much did you get for them?
Do you ever regret selling them?:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

How about those late 50`s paulas Lew,how much did you get for them?
Do you ever regret selling them?:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

I've never sold a guitar I loved and would rather keep than sell. I rarely play my Les Paul although it's a great one. I'm a Tele and Strat guy...actually, lately I've been playing alot of diatonic autoharp!

The most I ever got for a real '59 Burst ( mine looked just like Mike Bloomfield's ) was less than $1000. That would've been about 1970 and I sold it to a guy in New York from an ad I placed in a brand new magazine called Rolling Stone!

They go for over $100K now...

lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: What Makes Vintage Les Pauls Sound So Good?

They go for over $100K now...

actually they go for over $250k now!