What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

['59]

So I originally wanted to mod my guitar with a TBX, as shown in another thread, but I got to thinking that my guitar doesn't really have all that much bass in the first place. But since I'm overhauling the control system anyway, I'd like to change it to 50s wiring to prevent the treble loss problem on the volume control. I have tried it before on a Squier with a linear volume and audio tone (the tapers I usually prefer) but with 50s wiring the taper of the pot is much too quick for my liking, and as for the tone pot, I didn't use it for the short time I had the guitar, because I eventually got rid of it.

My questions are what pot do I need to use to get the volume pot to respond the same with 50s wiring as it does with a modern wiring linear taper pot, and how does it affect the taper of the tone pot? I also did a magnet swap from ceramic to A5 on the Squier at the same time I modded the wiring, so how does it affect the tone?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

I've heard something about anti-log pots (which are just lefty pots I believe) for 50s wiring would straighten things out, but I have stuck with modern wiring for just the reason you stated.

As for whether or not it affects the tone control or the tone in general, you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in. Like I said, I don't use 50s wiring.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

I use '50's wiring in my LP/SG and always audio taper pots.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

I find a lot of the debate of audio vs linear volume pots has to do with volume, audio works better for people who play at louder volumes, and linear is better for people who play at bedroom or studio levels. I don't know exactly how well that translates to 50s wiring though. What levels do you usually play at?

 

[AlexR]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

^ What?!?

Taper has all to do with how you roll the volume pot down. Someone who like quick swells will like a speedy taper down from 10 no matter what volume they play at. Someone who rolls volume back for drive will like a slower taper......yes, again irrespective of how loud the amp is.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

What I meant by that was at lower volumes, an audio taper pot will sound smooth between 10 and 7ish, but might as well be off below that. At higher volumes it's a gradual shift across the whole pot. A linear pot will have a good taper at lower volumes, but if you get the volume high enough, all the action will happen between 5 and 10, but it'll be really a really slow change after that.

But yes, volume swells make a large part of it too.

 

[AlexR]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

The pot still does exactly the same thing to the signal coming from the guitar irrespective of the amp output.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

The pot still does exactly the same thing to the signal coming from the guitar irrespective of the amp output.

That it does, but the ear is less sensitive to volume differences at higher levels, so we hear the taper as more or less smooth at different volume levels.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

Try a Mojotone/CTS vintage taper pot.

Click on page 2 ... http://www.mojotone.com/Potentiometers_x#/

 

['59]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

If I decide to go to a treble bleed, which would be a cap in series with a resistor, would the small amount of treble bypass the cap even when the volume is at 0?

 

[Artie]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

If I decide to go to a treble bleed, which would be a cap in series with a resistor, would the small amount of treble bypass the cap even when the volume is at 0?

Treble bleed is completely out of the circuit at both "zero" and 10. It only matters at the "in-between" settings. (Eleven, if using a Marshall amp.)

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

Mr. '59, I've noticed that you have taken a recent interest in getting your tone control and volume to work perfectly. Don't get me wrong, that is a noble pursuit. But in my car and immeasurable experience, I've found it to be a pointless one. You have 4 options the way I see it:

1- Go active. This is the best way to fix your problem, except it takes a battery, which might die on you at a bad moment. I'm sure you are educated on the ups and downs of active circuitry.
2- 50's wiring. This actually isn't that bad if you want a vintage correct guitar, but it isn't the best for a guitar you plan on using as a work horse. The mod messes up the taper of the volume pot, the setting on the tone control messes up the taper of the volume pot, and the tone affects the volume.
3- Treble bleed: This works fine and completely solves the problem. If you have the values worked exactly right to the cable and your pots. If you do the cap and resistor in series (as you want to do, which is IMO, the best way), you have to tune the resistor and cap to your guitar. And if you end up using a cable that has a massively different amount of capacitance from your guitar, it throws everything off. And you can't use a Fuzz Face with the guitar volume below 10 for some odd reason. It messes with the mids. If you can get it to work right it's quite nice, but if you have a lot of guitars it can be a bother to do it to all of them.
4- Modern wiring. The volume and tone are non-interaction, but the volume turns the tone to mud. This is what I use.

I eventually gave up on trying to find the cure to this inherent fault with the electric guitar. I now use the volume pot as an on/off switch, the tone pot to tame a bright amp, and right hand dynamics and pickup switch to adjust my tone, just as the good Lord intended.

If I made it sound impossible to get a good volume/tone interaction, that is not the case. It just becomes a nuisance after a while. You can't get rid of problems in a passive guitar, only move them some place else.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

Maybe I was a bit hard on 50s wiring, it's actually pretty decent if you have all your controls set to 5 most of the time and have vintage taper (30%) pots. Again, I do say it's not the best scheme to have on your only guitar.

And you won't have any abnormal issues with treble bleeds if you can get the electrical values right.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

^WAT?! It takes a lot of fiddling, but you can absolutely get your controls to suit your tone the way you want. My guitar is doing the best it ever did! My volume, tone, and blender all work correctly, suit the tone of the guitar, and are usable at all points in the sweep.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

Treble bleed is completely out of the circuit at both "zero" and 10. It only matters at the "in-between" settings. (Eleven, if using a Marshall amp.)

I've found this to be false, treble bleeds can still pump extra highs thru with the volume on 10. I tried one on my bass once and it totally jacked up the tone, it was very obvious.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

I've found this to be false, treble bleeds can still pump highs thru with the volume on 10. I tried one on my bass once and it totally jacked up the tone, it was very obvious.

Interesting, I've never had this problem with any of my treble bleeds. What electrical values were you using?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

It was a cap only, 330pf I think.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

Hmm... Maybe a faulty pot or something. Then again, I've never just done a cap by itself.

 

[AlexR]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

There was a thread recently where Clint was asking about the TB effect.....and how it seemed to affect the EQ on 10. Others had reported a similar issue and linked another thread or two about the same thing IIRC.

For mine TB is the worst of all worlds - an artificial bump of the highs beyond the normal relative mix of the pickup at any stage of the vol pot. And the different methods only serve to try and make the controls work the way they did before you added the mod in.
50's is great for a much wider range of volume in all the 30 or more guitars I have it in - it retains highs in a more natural way than a TB ever will. Plus for those who use the vol for drive you can get that cool acoustic-like tone when you roll both Vol and Tone knobs back to 3 or so.
I can't understand the need for constant vol and tone fiddling myself, as the way 50's comes up on my rig the tonal balance stays about the same......you don't need to constantly adjust to keep things balanced.

 

[dystrust]

Re: What Taper Pot for 50s Wiring?

There was a thread recently where Clint was asking about the TB effect.....and how it seemed to affect the EQ on 10. Others had reported a similar issue and linked another thread or two about the same thing IIRC.

For mine TB is the worst of all worlds - an artificial bump of the highs beyond the normal relative mix of the pickup at any stage of the vol pot. And the different methods only serve to try and make the controls work the way they did before you added the mod in.
50's is great for a much wider range of volume in all the 30 or more guitars I have it in - it retains highs in a more natural way than a TB ever will. Plus for those who use the vol for drive you can get that cool acoustic-like tone when you roll both Vol and Tone knobs back to 3 or so.
I can't understand the need for constant vol and tone fiddling myself, as the way 50's comes up on my rig the tonal balance stays about the same......you don't need to constantly adjust to keep things balanced.

+1

I put 50s wiring in both my Strat and Tele and never looked back. I haven't redone all of my guitars yet, but I do switch tone controls to 50s wiring any time I work on electronics for one.