What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

B

Blueline

New member
I've been itchin to build a tube amp for a while
i was all set on the 18 watt TMB but am not confident that i can use it as desired (normal channel for cleans (or pretty clean) and TMB for crunch and leads
i'm afraid the normal channel will break up too early

i've nevre played a matchless dc30 - but i loved the badcat hot cat i played (i know - they're totally diff) but ceriatone now has a matchless dc30 kit
could iuse the 12ax7 B/T channel for cleans and the ef86 channel for dirty

could someone describe the 2 channels (tone wise)

i really need 2 channels
amps i've loved
mesa dc-5
badcat hot cat
orange rocker 30
even the mesa lonestar special and the new ace seem interesting

however, none of these are really "buildable"

please advise - i'm pullin my hair out
i just don't want to build an amp i don't like or that doesn't suit my needs
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

Having reread my original post, i think the question really got lost

can someone describe the 2 channels on a matchless DC30 please
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

I loved the SC 30 I played on vacation! Beautiful cleans, IMO. Loves single coils.

I'm not expert, but here's what Matchless has to say:

The preamp sections are based on a layout of two 12AX7's in Channel 1 and one EF86 in Channel 2. The two 12AX7's in Channel 1 create a parallel-triode circuit with interactive bass and treble. The one EF86 in Channel 2 consists of a high-gain pentode coupled to a six-position tone switch. Outright benefits include quick dial-in of new tones and an easy return to the settings you learn to prefer. Also "high treble" cut control, master volume, with a bypass feature that offers flexible control of the power amp section. The power amp is fed by a 12AX7 phase inverter, which drives four EL84 power tubes. The rectifier circuit gives you the flexibility of using one 5AR4 for a quick attack or you can use two 5V4's for a smooth round response. Other professional features include an effects loop, half power-mode switch (a conservative 30 watts switching to 15 watts), output impedance selector (4, 8, 16 ohms) and a speaker phase-reverse switch.
Click to expand...

an EF-86 is one of the higher gain preamp tubes - higher than a 12AX7, and sometimes with high gain you get microphonics, which basically means the quality of this tube is critical.

good luck with your choice, and I hope things are going well with your guitar building
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

For a first build, the Matchless DC30 is probably what I'd consider pretty intense. It's a great amp. I've built one using the Ceriatone layout. It's a freaking beast. I can't comment on Nik's transformers since I've not used them. I used the same ones that Matchless uses. It's serious iron.

For the first build, I'd suggest you try something a bit simpler. You can actually get a rather inexpensive Champ kit from Weber. Or a 5E3 or the 18 watt.
 
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Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

the thing of it is
can you use the normal as a clean channel and the TMB for the gain channel
i need the master volume for the gain channel as i don't have the opportunity to crank an amp to get crunch

how loud can you get a clean tone on the normal channel (with your guirar vol on 10)

ps - Curly - thanks for the well wishes - Gauge Guitars is going strong
 
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Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

You could use the normal channel as the clean, but you will lose volume and it will be out of balance with the tmb channel for volume/gain. I've found that the normal channel starts to break up around 11 oclock while the tmb side doesn't do that until around 2. It's all possible depending on the venue you are playing. I finally got to play out with the 18 watt last night and I had to turn it down most of the time so I had very nice cleans through the night. In that situation a good od pedal or attenuator is a must. Don't under estimate 18 watts for volume, it's loud. Just doesn't have that much headroom.
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

"I've found that the normal channel starts to break up around 11 oclock while the tmb side doesn't do that until around 2"

so, the normal channel is dirtier than the TMB
i thought the TMB was higher gain on the JA TMB

since you actually own one
if you get a nice clean tone ont he normal channel
you can't get a crunch going on the TMB channel (even keeping the "MV" lower and raising the "gain/preamp vol"
without blasting the normal away
i don't mind that the crunch is a bit louder than the normal is when clean

i don't need volume
just clean and dirty (switchable)
 
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Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

Blueline said:
so, the normal channel is dirtier than the TMB
i thought the TMB was higher gain on the JA TMB

since you actually own one
if you get a nice clean tone ont he normal channel
you can't get a crunch going on the TMB channel (even keeping the "MV" lower and raising the "gain/preamp vol"
without blasting the normal away
i don't mind that the crunch is a bit louder than the normal is when clean

i don't need volume
just clean and dirty (switchable)
Click to expand...

The TMB does have higher/more compressed gain plus the advantage footswitchable preamp gain boost. But it does break up later than the normal channel. One thing that I've noticed on the tmb, when you turn up the 1st vol the tone gets thicker and stays a bit cleaner and tighter. I'm thinking power tube saturation. While the second volume is preamp gain and if it is raised without raising the other volume it gets a loose throaty gain. Combined it gets a nice compressed gain. The amp doesn't have a true master volume and they are highly interactive. I find that the normal channel has a throatier gain that is just plain wicked . But I do love the gain on the tmb channel as well. I hope that I am answering your questions, I'm not very good at describing what I am hearing sometimes. I guess that overall the 18 watt TMB/Normal is a very versitile amp that is plenty loud for small/med gigs, sounds incredible and is a pretty easy build.
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

keep the info commin
maybe a PM would be less selfish of me (but if the others dont' mind)

i gues the question is
since i have no need for lots of volume
can you dial in crunch on the normal channel (either thruogh the preamp gain or a comb of both vols) and a decent clean on the normal chanel
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

Yes that is indeed possible.... and I'm going to have to experiment some more with it and an a/b/y pedal.
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

i wish i was a little closer by - i'd love to hear it
i tried going to an 18watt forum amp fest but couldn't 1) get to hear the JA TMB and 2) hear myself think as there wree aout 10 amps at full tilt all going at once

also
could you describe the TMB channel's gain
with more preamp than powre amp gain
is it more of a plexi or more modern marsahll or hot plexi
vintage, etc.
i appreciate it
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

TMB gain:

Vol 1-9 oclock
Vol 2-maxed
Tone heard-Very loose and gritty gain volume is moderate

Vol 1-Maxed
Vol 2-9 oclock
Tone heard- Tight, warm, and nice light bluesy gain but very loud.

Vol 1-Maxed
Vol 2-Maxed
Tone heard- Hot rodded plexi at half the volume of a SLP 100, not as full sounding but wicked non the less.

None of the settings will give you a scooped, drop d, metal tones, it's got the vintage hot rodded plexi in spades.

BTW, it does take to pedals VERY well.
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

that was very helpful
one last Question
with the normal channel clean (i'm guess under 11 oclock)
can it compete with the TMB (still quieter but in the same area of volume)
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

If I understand your question, the normal channel volume, 11 oclock and under will be a bit out of balance(less volume) with the TMB if you want to run it as the gain channel. There may be a happy medium in there though, but that is obviously very subjective. One thing to note, the amp cleans up very nicely by simply using the volume on the guitar and this works with both channels.
 
Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

I'd start with something easier than a Matchless. A Champ type amp would be easy, but not as satisfying as a Deluxe type amp. I'd recommend one of my brother's 5E3 kits that are a near clone of my '58 tweed Deluxe amp.

http://www.missionamps.com

I own a Matchless SC-30, BTW. But after getting a Matchless Chieftan I haven't plugged into my SC-30 for almost a year!

I can tell you that I prefered the EF86 channel 2 though...that's the one I used most often. Seems rounder and more organic or something...

You should go to the Matchless website and download thier Owners Manual for the SC30/DC30 and read up on the two channels. They have very differant tone controls and do sound quite differant.
 
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Re: What to Build? (18 TMB/DC30/etc)

I prefer the EF86 channel on the DC30 as well. I'm diggin mine a lot.

I'd also highly recommend Bruce's Mission 5E3. It's the best beginner kit out there. Great parts, fantastic personal support and a very easy pictoral guide on how long to cut wires, etc.,.

Very hard to go wrong. His stuff is a bit higher than Weber's, but the parts are a LOT better. (assuming you dig as much made in usa stuff as you can get)
 
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