what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
- Thread starter esandes
- Start date
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Don't know but FWIW, it doesn't really matter...
The Chinese Celestions sound as good as the UK made Celestions and don't believe anything else you read online.
Don't know but FWIW, it doesn't really matter...
The Chinese Celestions sound as good as the UK made Celestions and don't believe anything else you read online.
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Exactly.!
And if you do not believe US, just ask that guys that have paid for and compared both. They will all tell you the more expensive speaker sounds "better".
Know what I mean.?
good luck
Exactly.!
And if you do not believe US, just ask that guys that have paid for and compared both. They will all tell you the more expensive speaker sounds "better".
Know what I mean.?
good luck
JeffB
Let it B
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Have a chinese V30 myself. Once broken in, sounds great. Really great. Have not been able to do a A/B of them, but I do not recall any glaring differences from any of the UK ones I have played, .still has the tight low end, focused complex mids, and high end presence peak. Great stuff paired with the right amp.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy any other "classic" Celestion speaker made there..GB, H30, V30, CL80, 75, etc. The only celestions that I feel are a real step down in sonic quality are the 70/80,.rocket 50, and many of the cheap speakers they build for inexpensive combo amps from Marshall, Line 6, etc.
Have a chinese V30 myself. Once broken in, sounds great. Really great. Have not been able to do a A/B of them, but I do not recall any glaring differences from any of the UK ones I have played, .still has the tight low end, focused complex mids, and high end presence peak. Great stuff paired with the right amp.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy any other "classic" Celestion speaker made there..GB, H30, V30, CL80, 75, etc. The only celestions that I feel are a real step down in sonic quality are the 70/80,.rocket 50, and many of the cheap speakers they build for inexpensive combo amps from Marshall, Line 6, etc.
Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
I bet the retail price didn't change after they moved them to China.
I bet the retail price didn't change after they moved them to China.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
As a consumer I hate paying more than I have to for anything.
BUT, I would rather a company keep a healthy profit margin and allow the quality to remain high, than have them lower their margin,.and start to cut corners. These are luxury items, and they are in business to make money, not be our buddies and give us the cheapest price they can.
Celestion is a perfect example of this phenomenon, as is Epiphone moving production to China.
I am speaking purely from a business/quality aspect, I am not factoring politics into this.
As a consumer I hate paying more than I have to for anything.
BUT, I would rather a company keep a healthy profit margin and allow the quality to remain high, than have them lower their margin,.and start to cut corners. These are luxury items, and they are in business to make money, not be our buddies and give us the cheapest price they can.
Celestion is a perfect example of this phenomenon, as is Epiphone moving production to China.
I am speaking purely from a business/quality aspect, I am not factoring politics into this.
Van Noord
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
The Chinese ones are just as good now.
I do remember a Celestion Rep. on another forum revealing that there were some consistency issues from approximately 2001-02 for the first year or two when production moved . But that was due to the equipment and the new operators of the equipment. The was a learning curve regarding the manufacturing process involved so some mentoring had to take place.
All has been back to proper standards for over a decade now.
The Chinese ones are just as good now.
I do remember a Celestion Rep. on another forum revealing that there were some consistency issues from approximately 2001-02 for the first year or two when production moved . But that was due to the equipment and the new operators of the equipment. The was a learning curve regarding the manufacturing process involved so some mentoring had to take place.
All has been back to proper standards for over a decade now.
Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Interesting. What if say, Gibson, were to move production of their Standard line to China. Would you still be willing to pay $2500 for a Chinese made Gibson LP Standard?
Interesting. What if say, Gibson, were to move production of their Standard line to China. Would you still be willing to pay $2500 for a Chinese made Gibson LP Standard?
JeffB
Let it B
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
I am not willing to pay it for a USA made Les Paul. So, no.
The big difference in your example and mine is that Celestion and Epiphone were not charging exorbitant prices for relative quality level. The products were fairly priced to begin with., and in ordr to maintain fair pricing they want to a lower cost production that could produce the same or beter quality without any abnormal pricing increases.
Gibson would not be able to increase its profit margin moving to china, due to the amount of material they would have to start importing halfway around the world. In their case also, you are paying extra already for an american made product, that is for many of customers one of its best features. You would seriously devalue the brand moving it anywhere else. With Celestion,or Epiphone, essentially no one cares whether it is Korea or China, unless one has a socio/politically minded objection. It also does not devalue the brands as where they made is not a feature of either product.
I am not willing to pay it for a USA made Les Paul. So, no.
The big difference in your example and mine is that Celestion and Epiphone were not charging exorbitant prices for relative quality level. The products were fairly priced to begin with., and in ordr to maintain fair pricing they want to a lower cost production that could produce the same or beter quality without any abnormal pricing increases.
Gibson would not be able to increase its profit margin moving to china, due to the amount of material they would have to start importing halfway around the world. In their case also, you are paying extra already for an american made product, that is for many of customers one of its best features. You would seriously devalue the brand moving it anywhere else. With Celestion,or Epiphone, essentially no one cares whether it is Korea or China, unless one has a socio/politically minded objection. It also does not devalue the brands as where they made is not a feature of either product.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
They didn't lower their margin. They didn't even keep it the same. They increased it significantly. When I can get stuff from the US like Scumback and Weber at the same price point I see no point in purchasing from Celestion. I will support the local guy
They didn't lower their margin. They didn't even keep it the same. They increased it significantly. When I can get stuff from the US like Scumback and Weber at the same price point I see no point in purchasing from Celestion. I will support the local guy
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JeffB
Let it B
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Good for you, that is not the issue we are discussing. But by chance did you also not buy from Celestion when products were UK made? what about Marshall amps?
Care to share that "significant" increase? I never saw anything more than a few $ increase around the typical new model year for a.long long time. Of course in 10+ years it adds up. Gibson Les Paul standards were also $700 cheaper too ten years ago.
I can poke holes in all these corner case theory arguments that ignore the premise of my post all day long, but I won't waste my time with it. Bottom line- it is good for a business to make a profit, if quality does not suffer, and the product fulfills your needs, buy it, but do not exepct them to lower profits. In todays business market, dropping prices significantly is a major devaluation of how the brand is perceived. You guys can go argue overseas manufacturing with someone else.
Good for you, that is not the issue we are discussing. But by chance did you also not buy from Celestion when products were UK made? what about Marshall amps?
Care to share that "significant" increase? I never saw anything more than a few $ increase around the typical new model year for a.long long time. Of course in 10+ years it adds up. Gibson Les Paul standards were also $700 cheaper too ten years ago.
I can poke holes in all these corner case theory arguments that ignore the premise of my post all day long, but I won't waste my time with it. Bottom line- it is good for a business to make a profit, if quality does not suffer, and the product fulfills your needs, buy it, but do not exepct them to lower profits. In todays business market, dropping prices significantly is a major devaluation of how the brand is perceived. You guys can go argue overseas manufacturing with someone else.
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
i tend to agree that origin of manufacture is related to quality, especially the more intricate/complex the product is. fortunately speakers are quite low tech.
my current cabinet has UK made greenbacks, as per Ayrton's post. so when i get a chinese greenback loaded cabinet in a year or so i can do an A/B comparison as well. but i do recall from this forum that they are identical sounding.
i tend to agree that origin of manufacture is related to quality, especially the more intricate/complex the product is. fortunately speakers are quite low tech.
my current cabinet has UK made greenbacks, as per Ayrton's post. so when i get a chinese greenback loaded cabinet in a year or so i can do an A/B comparison as well. but i do recall from this forum that they are identical sounding.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
People buy Applecraple for a fortune....they are made in china!
Quality is dependent on how you make it, not who makes it!
Besides Asia has long since passed the west.....we are the backwater stuff these days!
People buy Applecraple for a fortune....they are made in china!
Quality is dependent on how you make it, not who makes it!
Besides Asia has long since passed the west.....we are the backwater stuff these days!
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Be it Celestion, Vox, or WHOEVER
China makes the product at the demands of THAT companies specs.
China would be more than happy to hand wire amps for Matchless.
Quality does not adhere to imaginary lies on a map.
best
The idea that "China" only makes junk, or not as good as the USA, is the epitome of racism.
Be it Celestion, Vox, or WHOEVER
China makes the product at the demands of THAT companies specs.
China would be more than happy to hand wire amps for Matchless.
Quality does not adhere to imaginary lies on a map.
best
Van Noord
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Racism is an ugly word that envokes and spreads hatred. It is used far too loosely these days.
Nobody hates China for their manufacturing abilities. They are being stereotyped for sometimes producing and providing poor quality products to the world.
Actually, it's simply pregudice. Not Racism.
Racism is an ugly word that envokes and spreads hatred. It is used far too loosely these days.
Nobody hates China for their manufacturing abilities. They are being stereotyped for sometimes producing and providing poor quality products to the world.
Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Nobody hates China for their quality either. People hate China because they have incredibly lax labor and environmental standards which allow their factories to manufacture goods extremely cheap thereby undercutting Western workers. Companies have been moving production of their products there because it's cheaper to have a Chinese factory make something and have it shipped halfway around the world than it is to employ their own workforce in their own building with their own equipment. Essentially they blow away the overhead of having to actually MAKE things and employ people to do it. When companies do that, they cease to be makers of products and they just become a brand.
Nobody hates China for their quality either. People hate China because they have incredibly lax labor and environmental standards which allow their factories to manufacture goods extremely cheap thereby undercutting Western workers. Companies have been moving production of their products there because it's cheaper to have a Chinese factory make something and have it shipped halfway around the world than it is to employ their own workforce in their own building with their own equipment. Essentially they blow away the overhead of having to actually MAKE things and employ people to do it. When companies do that, they cease to be makers of products and they just become a brand.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: what year did celestion go chinese for greenbacksand vintage 30s?
Well that is capitalism for you.....money does not smell...they just are.
And we started out so well ourselves???
Well that is capitalism for you.....money does not smell...they just are.
And we started out so well ourselves???
