What's the fat on these Nightswans?

[Gtrjunior]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Hello.

Wow!!! Didn't see any of THAT coming that's for sure!!! LOL!!! I think it's time for me to unsubscribe from forums for a while (that should make some around these parts happy to hear!!! LOL!!!) i.e. I seem to have a knack for "putting my foot in it". And here I was just trying to give the OP some "fat" on the Nightswans!!! LOL!!!

The above being said: I don't think it fair to just leave this "hanging out there" although THIS TOO being said it's sure not my intention to start one of those proverbial "shi*tstorms" either. And @metalchurch79: in no way am I questioning your take on things or information that you may be privy to that I am not so please bear this in mind. I just believe I need to comment on a few things i.e. at least comment on my take on things.

Interesting about the "Lightning Storm" graphic. Until I saw your post (@metalchurch79) I'd no idea that this whole thing had gone further. I did indeed look up Craig Patchin and, true enough, such award was made on 4 December 2018. As noted: I wasn't aware of this at the time of my posting. For anybody interested here's a link: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dimebag-darrell-estate-dean-guitars-181827296.html.

Sidenote: the more controversy the better for my guitar not??? LOL!!! I wonder if, given the above, Buddy is allowed to continue and complete the series with the "Lightning Storm" artwork???

I have corrected the details of my initial post on the VC-II (my) guitar by the way (for the sake of accuracy) i.e. it's based on the Nightswan I and not on the Nightswan II (sorry: my bad i.e. too many "Swans" and I get confused at my age and after all these years of "abuse"!!! LOL!!!). Specs. are identical to the Kramer Nightswan Marketing Brochure of the day (including R1 nut). The Nightswan II was very different (pickups, recessed Floyd, different body shape, different selector switch, one or two other things).

I cannot really comment comprehensively on the notion that Buddy may not have had anything to do with the design of the original Nightswan. I can only say that based on my research (one of the reasons I ordered and paid premium for "The Vivian Connection"!!! LOL!!!) I'm personally convinced that he did. There's a lot of info. on these guitars on the Internet backed up by Vivian himself so far as I can tell. Aside from anything else there's at least three different video interviews with Buddy and Vivian together discussing the origin and specs. of these guitars. But then again: THIS IS THE INTERNET!!! LOL!!! (This being said: it's hard to argue with a video).

As far as workmanship is concerned: my experience is way different. Put another way: some around these parts believe I suffer from OCD (which, in fairness, based on my "epic" Vivian thread, is understandable let's face it and, maybe, there's at least a little truth to this). Point is I am "full of it" and pedantic when it comes to this type of thing. And I certainly was not the easiest or most accommodating of customers either (to the point where at some point I figured Buddy and Joyce were gonna tell me to "beat it" and it would not have surprised me) (but they didn't obviously!!! LOL!!!). So all I can tell you is that my guitar is really and truly absolutely perfect in every single way. And not just me being biased either i.e. a few (select???) people (including our best known luthier in this country) have had the privilege of "handling" it and in all cases comments have been far more than simply complimentary. The thinness of the neck and extreme low action seem to be highlights??? All have been most complimentary of the tone and rave about the sustain (this thing can hold notes for DAYS if you allow it to!!! LOL!!!). UNFORTUNATELY for ME: it's not the tone I was after (but this sure ain't Buddy's problem or fault i.e. I didn't know "sh*t from shovel" insofar as hand made guitars are concerned when I ordered it). So my "case queen" (love that description!!! LOL!!!) gonna stay that way. Turns out I need a full scale, Alder body, with Invaders to get my tone (well: this among other things of course) i.e. same spec. as Vivian's 1983/1984 white Charvel (which apparently I'm intent upon making famous!!! LOL!!!). So yeh. Sanity and finances willing: will get Buddy to make the beast early next year (but no: no red squares on white background with skulls not unless I can lay my hands on THAT white Charvel which, I guess, would become a second "case queen"!!! LOL!!!).

And I agree with the notion of building your own (whatever guitar) or having it made. I've had two (USA) Charvels and one (USA) Jackson Soloist over the years (I'm not including my two current Jackson Dinkys in this comparison as they're cheaper, Chinese factory, models and I've spent a fair amount of money on them getting them to "my spec. and standards"). Absolutely amazing and beautiful guitars (referencing the USA stuff for the sake of fair comparison). But there is "something" about a hand made and hand crafted instrument (albeit that this was first time delving into this). And really: there's not much difference REALLY in price between some of the (factory???) artist signature and custom models and hand made. I guess the point is: get a quote (from ANY luthier of your choice) anyway as you may be pleasantly surprised (I certainly was and this in spite of my paying a hefty premium for "The Vivian Connection"!!! LOL!!!).

Anyways and to the OP: if it's "FAT" you wanted then I reckon it's "FAT" you got!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

Dale,

All due respect. But is there any way you can work on shortening your post to essential information?

Every time I see that you’ve written a book I skip right over your post. No offense but I don’t have that kind of time or desire to read 14 paragraphs.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Dale,

All due respect. But is there any way you can work on shortening your post to essential information?

Every time I see that you’ve written a book I skip right over your post. No offense but I don’t have that kind of time or desire to read 14 paragraphs.

I'll try!!! LOL!!! Although as I have noted: for a variety of reasons (not limited to what's happened here to be honest) I reckon I should step back ("step away from the vehicle") for a while. Enjoying these forums just a tad too much really (spending way too much time on them). If I do: I'm sure I'll be back when my Invaders arrive!!! LOL!!!

I'll leave you with this though (if nothing else read this):

The main reason my posts are the way they are is because I've been posting on forums for a very long time (various topics and business stuff). And it used to drive me nuts when I asked a question (particularly a technical question) and somebody would respond with a "one liner" that I couldn't make sense of. So: ended up having to ask the question again and again. And, well, here we are. I guess I try to be as specific as possible and leave nothing to imagination, interpretation, or guesswork. But yeh: I've been chastised before for these posts so fair comment. And I guess I post as if I were having a "conversation" which is wrong I suppose.

Alright. Lest you skip over this one: end of post!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Mincer]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Buddy Blaze built the original from Warmoth parts- and shaved down the cutaway. This has been confirmed by JC Guitars, who came into possession of the original, removed the neck, and lo and behold - turtles. You can make a similar guitar yourself from Warmoth parts

It would be great if you could get the body style with the routing you want already done.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

I did a digital mockup in my free time on Warmoth today:



I probably won't keep the Japanese on when I finally get around to making it, but I might. It says "Iron Horse" in a literal sense, I just borrowed them because they look cool, I don't know Chinese.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Dale,
Yes Im familiar with Vivian’s white Charvel but I do not know who owns it, if in fact it made it out of the 80’s alive. As far as having a copy custom made by Charvel or Jackson, thats highly unlikely but you could get something really close if you changed a few specs, but prob not the finish. However you could spec out a white one and have someone else apply the graphic for you.
This thread did cross over into territory it wasnt meant to, but it was a very healthy discussion among good people and it didnt get out of hand which Im glad about. In hindsight I should have left some things out myself, and the only reason I included what I did was more or less a PSA for anyone not familiar.
There are far too many guys online parroting 3rd hand info which only adds to the confusion. Im not talking here, but those online facebook groups and places like that.
Im not saying my guitar is better and yours is a pos, thats most certainly not what I was implying. If you are happy with your guitar and it performs as it should Id call that a win any day of the week no doubt about it and you got one of the good ones.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

I like your mock-up Christopher! Thats really awesome!

 

[muttznmongrelz]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

I do regret not grabbing the three Nightswans that someone dumped at my local GC about 3-4 years ago, 2 Japanese market models and one USA Market Blue Sparkle. IIRC the Japanese Market ones were priced at $600.00 each and the US Market was $750.00. Almost bought the Blue Sparkle but it had a collapsing trem post so I passed. Doh!

Warmoth Link:

Warmoth and the Nightswan

July 20, 2016 by Aaron Cheney

http://blog.warmoth.com/2016/07/20/warmoth-kramer-nightswan-prototypes/

 

[Mincer]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

The mock up is the soloist body, but the Nightswan is a slightly different shape.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Warmoth doesnt offer that shape, so he would have to mod a 7/8 strat body extensively to achieve the shape. They do however offer a Swan type neck with the ping-pong inlays. Or they did.
But again, the headstock shape is off so that’ll need some attention as well.

I know some guys who will make a near identical one for you, if interested hit me up in a pm and Ill get you the contact info.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Dale,
Yes Im familiar with Vivian’s white Charvel but I do not know who owns it, if in fact it made it out of the 80’s alive. As far as having a copy custom made by Charvel or Jackson, thats highly unlikely but you could get something really close if you changed a few specs, but prob not the finish. However you could spec out a white one and have someone else apply the graphic for you.
This thread did cross over into territory it wasnt meant to, but it was a very healthy discussion among good people and it didnt get out of hand which Im glad about. In hindsight I should have left some things out myself, and the only reason I included what I did was more or less a PSA for anyone not familiar.
There are far too many guys online parroting 3rd hand info which only adds to the confusion. Im not talking here, but those online facebook groups and places like that.
Im not saying my guitar is better and yours is a pos, thats most certainly not what I was implying. If you are happy with your guitar and it performs as it should Id call that a win any day of the week no doubt about it and you got one of the good ones.

Hello.

All good.

Nah. Would buy that white Charvel if I could find it (believe it or not the sure fire way would have been to go through my favorite luthier given their history but I seemed to meet with "resistance" on more than one occasion for reasons beyond my comprehension to this day). But would buy only to collect it really i.e. already decided to have another Blaze Shredder made (full scale, Alder body, Invader bridge only, you get the picture). Don't want the graphic i.e. too old to go THAT far (not at school anymore ya know!!! LOL!!!).

Thanks for the "chitter chatter" though.

As I said above: all good.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Sounds like youre getting a K2 Model-1

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

I know some guys who will make a near identical one for you, if interested hit me up in a pm and Ill get you the contact info.

Thanks, I figure I could just give Warmoth the blueprints for a Nightswan body, but I'll get back to you if that doesn't work out. This project is still a while down the road, as I currently have big boy responsibilities getting in the way of my guitaring.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

You're not the first to ask them and certainly not gonna be the last and every time the answer is an emphatic "No" so going that direction isn't going to work. I understand that this is all preliminary stages so later on when you're ready let me know and I'll help in any way that I can to point you in the right direction.

I was actually gonna do a Jackson Doug Aldrich style guitar earlier this summer but it got sidelined as well because I once again changed my mind... It happens to the best of us.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Sounds like youre getting a K2 Model-1

(I'm sure the OP is gonna get upset with me/us!!! LOL!!!).

Sounds about right i.e. was discussed much earlier this year (when I got no "joy" re: the white Charvel so that's how I know its specs.).

Must say that Jackson has one or two nice ones (Alder body/Maple fretboard). And I'm a BIG sucker for that headstock. But the pickups??? Nah. I've learned so much about guitars themselves (and about myself) in the last few months. Just want it simple (I don't think I've ever used a tone pot or switched between pickups in my life so what's the point).

Matter of interest: do you not find that having that middle pickup is a pain??? Only reason I ask is that on the few occasions that I play my Blaze (usually once per month on "cleaning day"!!! LOL!!!) I find I dig into that flipping middle pickup sometimes (often actually). Dunno. Maybe it just takes getting used to (or screwing the thing way down).

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Nah, all this is good info for him and his project as well as others so its on point and Im sure he is cool with it.

I don't find the HHX configuration to be a pain at all and the middle pickup being in my picking area so its adjusted where it should be, even though I don't ever use it so its not a problem. Good point though and others may find it to be in the way but I don't. Probably attributed to the topmount Floyd and the strings being away from the body and the pickups.

I found that my 2005 Jackson Lightning Sky Soloist's neck pickup was in my way much more so.. that's because of it being a recessed trem and little to no neck angle at all and no way to adjust it so the strings were very close to the body to the point that the neck pickup was dead even with the mounting ring, which was also a thin one...
My pick would sometimes hit the corner of the pickup so I got pissed and pulled it out and rocked it without one until I eventually sold it. I even tried raising the action but no-go...

Lovely playing guitar but I couldn't get with it...

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Sounds like youre getting a K2 Model-1

Actually no. Most important to me are the Alder body and Maple fretboard. And the pickup (Invader). Just moseyed on over to Buddy's website and the K2 Model-1 is WAY different. I checked emails from earlier this year now. Definitely one of the Shredders suggested but made to (my) spec. Just as long as whatever model it is: it sounds like that white Charvel (otherwise BIG trouble!!! LOL!!!).

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

I'll tell ya this much:

If nothing else you and I have pretty similar taste in guitars!!! LOL!!! And you sure have got, and have had some, "prizes" that's for sure. I was so disappointed to find that you cannot get that Jackson Lightning Sky anymore (when I was first looking around i.e. before the VC-II). That is (was) one VERY beautiful guitar!!!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Jeepers. Now you've got me thinking too!!! I wonder if Jackson would make a "Lightning Sky" (but to my specs.) via their Custom Shop??? I'd all but forgotten about that guitar UNTIL NOW!!! LOL!!!

(Edit)

Then again why muck about??? I see Charvel also has a Custom Shop i.e. never saw that before (I got put off their site because they didn't have any of those headstocks on it the last time I looked but there's one there now) (just the wrong materials for me). Hmmmnnn... Could just send them a pic. of that white Charvel and say "make" and have done with it!!! LOL!!! All jokes aside: DEFINITELY food for thought. Not sure if I should be thanking you. But thanks!!! LOL!!!

 

[Chistopher]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

You're not the first to ask them and certainly not gonna be the last and every time the answer is an emphatic "No" so going that direction isn't going to work. I understand that this is all preliminary stages so later on when you're ready let me know and I'll help in any way that I can to point you in the right direction.

I was actually gonna do a Jackson Doug Aldrich style guitar earlier this summer but it got sidelined as well because I once again changed my mind... It happens to the best of us.

Huh. I thought that Warmoth (at least used too) have a thing where they would CNC you a body from a CAD file, but I looked again and I guess I was mistaken.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: What's the fat on these Nightswans?

Huh. I thought that Warmoth (at least used too) have a thing where they would CNC you a body from a CAD file, but I looked again and I guess I was mistaken.

I just meant a Nightswan body, I had no idea they did any of that custom stuff (or did).