What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

[6stringerguy]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

The only reasons I see for it is for clean headroom and just because it's cool to have one

 

[Diego]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Tightness, low-end definition and string separation/clarity.

There's no replacement for wattage in that aspect, and I like a strong, bold tone as much as anybody else, but I personally prefer to live with amps from 20 to 50 watts.
Also, as mentioned, lower wattage amps are no longer an afterthought, as they used to be.

 

[Mincer]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

I don't know. I sold all of mine. I like the stage volume really low, anyway.

 

[baritone]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

I always found halfstacks in medium-sized bars & clubs to be overkill.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Headroom for me.

Showed up early to pick up my mm130 from the shop and found the tech jamming around 7 on the vol in full mode...

I've never had it in hi power above 3 and it spends most of it's time at 4 in low power mode...

He seemed to have fun, but I imagine he's hearing a few less high frequencies than the day before.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[dystrust]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Up until recently I was a loyal 100w user because they simply didn't make what I wanted in anything less.

In the past, with the exception of certain classics (and the people who copy them) just about anything below 100w was generally a stripped down version of the 100 watter and they usually didn't sound as good as the original. They put all their design effort in the 100w, then toss out a 50w version with two less tubes as an afterthought.

I think the Tiny Terror came out in 2008, which started the lunchbox revolution... but for the most part those were considered toys. It's really only been the last few years where amp manufacturers have started treating the sub-50w market as a serious market.

+1

Back in the day I liked 100W amps for the headroom and extra fullness. I lucked into a Jubilee 2555 in mid 2001, and it became my sound over the next several years. I love it, but it's too loud to be practical and it's also damn heavy. But as some_dude said, there really weren't any decent lower wattage options until recently. As little as 2-3 years ago I found myself saying that if someone made a Jubilee lunch box, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It ended up taking a bit longer than that, but I bought a Mini Jube a few months ago and couldn't be happier.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

There is nothing..NOTHING like a 100 watt fullstack. I get that modern stage performers need something more practical, but don't kid yourself, the mighty 100 watt fullstack rules all ( for hard rock and heavy metal), and theres nothing over the top about it volume wise IMO..although I don't have any expereince yet with my 100 watt NMV Plexi fullstack.

 

[Demanic]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

How about a thousand watt 8x10 neodymium bass stack?

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

How about a thousand watt 8x10 neodymium bass stack?

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

are you being facetious?

 

[Demanic]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

are you being facetious?

What? Me facetious?
Honestly though, think how it could sound!

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[some_dude]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

I always found halfstacks in medium-sized bars & clubs to be overkill.

Anything worth killing is worth overkilling.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

You can fully utilize a 100W tube head at home (as long as you're not a wimp).

I have a Bassman 70 at home - 70 watts, and it's ultralinear for even more headroom. I've also modified it so that I could bias the power valves to near 70% dissipation. I run it wide open at home (with hearing protection) when I feel like it, and no attenuators; it goes into either a 2x12 or 4x12, both with speakers around 101 dB efficiency. I've have never had a complaint from any neighbors nor have the cops been called once - and I'm in LA County so it's not like my neighbors are an acre away. More like a couple feet away.

So in the end, I guess I get the last laugh over naysayers who say, "Oh you'll never even get to use all that power!" because I do. It's great.

I always found halfstacks in medium-sized bars & clubs to be overkill.

Unless you're covering Motörhead's "Overkill". There's a reason it wasn't titled "Moderation".

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Originally Posted by Demanic How about a thousand watt 8x10 neodymium bass stack?

are you being facetious?

- http://www.vase.com.au/products/dynabassclassic.php -

The VASE Dynabass 1K Classic has been designed to provide an amplifier which uses state of the art electronic technology while retaining the traditional physical appearance of the instrument amplifiers of yesteryear.
Utilizing the combination of a low noise JFET Preamplifier, 5 Band Tonal Contouring and an ultra efficient 1000 Watt Class D Power Amplifier, the Dynabass 1k Classic offers the discerning bass musician a wide range of tonal textures to enhance any style of playing technique.
The unique design of the preamplifier section coupled to the high-power amplifier delivers an extremely fast transient response which many players prefer over the more conventional tube designed amplifiers.
The Dynabass 1k Classic offers great flexibility by providing a dedicated Tuner Output, Input Mute Switch, Direct Signal Output (with Pre/Post EQ selection) and an Effects Send and Return. Combine this capability with the legendary robust VASE build quality and the result is an instrument amplifier equally at home on tour or in the studio.

Power Rating	1650W

[TD="width: 35%"]Drivers[/TD]
[TD="width: 65%"]8x VASE LF200 10" Speakers
1x VASE HF50 Driver and Horn[/TD]

 

[Inkstained]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

To go deaf faster.

 

[leothelionator]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

They do not work well in a modern setting with advanced PA systems. You have to crank the amp pretty high to get that sweet spot in your tone and by then your amp is bleeding into all the vocal mic's and drum mic's. Then the sound guy asks you to turn it down to balance the other mic's and by then your big amp is stuck at 2 with nothing but boring cleans. It's like driving a Ferrari in a school zone. Or you could ignore him and deafen everyone in the front row, while the audience at the back of the bar can't hear you at all since you're not even coming through the mix because the sound guy has you turned down so low to compensate for your amp's volume.

I've got a 15 watt 65' Princeton Reverb reissue with a Sennheiser E609 microphone and I can barely crank the amp to 6 before it starts bleeding into the mic's. Plenty loud.

 

[Mincer]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

If you were to take hard rock and metal out of the equation, certainly there is no reason for them. But they work for those genres, and are part of the iconography of those performances, and likely one of the reasons why those who currently own them went out and bought them. When you are playing other forms of music (not so gain-based), they aren't really a good choice.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

They do not work well in a modern setting with advanced PA systems. You have to crank the amp pretty high to get that sweet spot in your tone and by then your amp is bleeding into all the vocal mic's and drum mic's. Then the sound guy asks you to turn it down to balance the other mic's and by then your big amp is stuck at 2 with nothing but boring cleans. It's like driving a Ferrari in a school zone. Or you could ignore him and deafen everyone in the front row, while the audience at the back of the bar can't hear you at all since you're not even coming through the mix because the sound guy has you turned down so low to compensate for your amp's volume.

I've got a 15 watt 65' Princeton Reverb reissue with a Sennheiser E609 microphone and I can barely crank the amp to 6 before it starts bleeding into the mic's. Plenty loud.

This gig was a 30w Orange/4x12, 50w Electra Dyne and 300w Traynor/4x10. Mic'd vocals and kick. DI'd keys. Guitars/bass were not mic'd/DI'd.

The 30w Orange was running wide open. The 50w Electra Dyne (technically a 100w amp in 50w mode) had headroom to spare (the acoustic guitar is plugged into the Electra Dyne). The 300w Traynor was up around 7 on the master volume and well into overdrive.

Livecast iPhone video from the back of the bar.. at around 1:10 they fix the camera angle. We can argue about the quality of the recording but every instrument is audible and the vocals are clear. Part way through the second or third song the soundman crouched across the stage and turned up the Orange because it wasn't loud enough.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Livecast of the headliner (FKB, skip to ~6:40). 2 Marshall half stacks and sounded better/clearer than we did (this is what headroom buys you). Same bass amp. More drum bleed thanks to the drummer using a vocal mic. Still no mics on the guitars or bass.

Personally, I prefer setups where the PA is used this way since there's less top end than I typically hear when everything is sent through the PA. I also don't particularly like it when they try to force the entire band through a PA system that can't handle it, or run it so loud everyone in the audience has to wear earplugs...

 

[zionstrat]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

They do not work well in a modern setting with advanced PA systems.

Exactly right- FOH engineer's job is to get the best possible sound for the audience and stage leakage is a real problem in small and midsized venues where most events occur-

1. Biggest problem is monitoring- Everyone knows this from their first garage band- you turn up to hear yourself, bassist does same, keyboardist does same and you overpower the vocal monitors, so engineer has to crank monitors and starts mic feedback loop.

2. Balance is another biggie- one side of audience gets to hear the stack that is closest to them and can't hear much of anything else.

3. Similar problem is they need to eq your amp to fit the room and can't do that if the stage is louder than the PA. Same problem with total volume- arrayed speakers give engineers incredible detail opportunities that get blown away with stage noise.

4. Same thing with phase cancellation, reflections and time delay in big venues

There's another thread running about modeling amps vs. tubes- The best FOH engineers I've worked with prefer modeling or an iso cabinet so they can tailor the sound and avoid all of the leakage- As much as l like my tubes, I will leave them at home if I know the audience is getting a great experience (and it's a trusted engineer who will give me a good monitor mix).

Mincer nailed it- we love the look of a wall of stacks, but it's visceral, not the best way to get a good sound, but most of us have done it.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: What's the point in big 100 watt heads?

Not just thumpier lows, airier, more open highs as well. The combination of more and bigger tubes and oversized transformers really makes a difference. A 100-watt amp just has more of everything. It's not just about quantity, but about quality of these frequencies as well, especially under the mic, IME.