Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

[Quencho092]

I've been very confused over the last couple of years about the quality of marshall amps. At one point, i found myself hoarding cash to buy a good dsl or something. But after visiting this forum and learning more about the amps, i realized that something's up with Marshall, and that they've been riding their name brand instead of their product quality to make money these days. I always pictured myself with a les paul playing though a marshall, but i now feel that both gibson and marshall are out to take my money in exchange for mediocre name brand products. What's the deal here! Help, someone inform me about this name brand tragedy!

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

I for one would agree that Marshall in partictular has been declining in quality for some time. The DSL is considered by many to be the best amp they've produced in some time, although many say that some of the re-issue series amps (Plexi, ect) are very good.

I think in general for many manufacturers it has become necessary in todays market to go to more mass produced components like pre-printed circuit boards in amps. This allows them to keep production up without skyrocketing material or labor cost. Truth be know, I believe it is the labor cost that is mostly responsible.

Materials for hand wired amps are not so much more expensive than circuit boards as to make them cost ineffective, but the labor to hand solder and test every circuit is. However, this is why many have gone to boutique amp makers....quality PTP construction, and they have shown they are willing to pay the extra money for it.

I think Marshall would be well served to reproduce some of their legendary circuits in a PTP configuration, and charge a little more money for them. If it's between a $1300 TSL, or a hand wired copy of a JCM or Plexi for $1600....I'd bet there would be a fair amount of people willing to pay the difference.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

good point! I agree about the fact that mass production really lessens the quality of amps because of quality control etc, but what's the difference between a printed circuit and wiring? Isn't a connection a connection? I know that most handwired amps sound better than ultra mass produced amps like modern marshalls, but can't they squeeze good tone out of a printed circuit?

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

Marshall have just released three point to point, boutique quality amps. UK Guitarist has a review in the next issue. One is a plexi head, another is an 18 watter, and another is a 40 watter (I think).

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

good point! I agree about the fact that mass production really lessens the quality of amps because of quality control etc, but what's the difference between a printed circuit and wiring? Isn't a connection a connection? I know that most handwired amps sound better than ultra mass produced amps like modern marshalls, but can't they squeeze good tone out of a printed circuit?

Gearjoneser covered this topic last week.

Basically, situating components (or the tracks the components run on, can't remember if it's either or both) too close together on a PCB can cause capacitances that affect tone. A properly designed PCB amp should be able to avoid this, and GJ cites THD and Bogner as good examples of this. And from what I hear, I'd say he's right. The new THD stuff sounds superb.

My local amp guru backed up GJ's opinion when I asked him last weekend.

He said that PTP amps are great for him, because he can service them quicker. For example, a scratchy pot in an early fender is a few minutes work to replace, whereas a new fender will be an hour's work due to having to pull the chassis and board out to get to it.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

I've never been a real tube snob or P to P snob, only because I realize that a great amp is more often the result of a well thought out design....not necessarily the components.

Fortunately, Marshall and Gibson have always catered to every corner of the music market, so you can't really bash them for making gear that's affordable to kids on a budget. One good thing about this forum is that we can discuss the pros and cons of every piece of gear out there.

I'd like to say that the Reissue Plexi 50 is the best thing they've made since 1973, but the truth is "best for what?" I guess I can only make a list of the best Marshalls I've plugged into, and who they're targeted at.

For highgain, versatility, and singing lead tones...
Jubilees, 30th Ann (blue), DSL 50 & 100, JCM 900 SLX. and JMP-1 preamp.

For 80's rock tones. The above + JCM 800's, 900's, and modded 800's and JMP's.

For "the classic Marshall sound" Reissue 1887X & SLP100, 67-73 Plexi/JMP's, JTM45, in general, any Marshall with 'all tolex' on it's head, gold piping, and NO cornercaps.

For "garage/punk ala Ramones" and gritty sounding bluesrock. 74-80 MKII Mastervolumes. 2 inputs, tolex head w/big white piping & cornercaps.
Also, JCM 900 Dual Reverbs.

That covers most tube amps. The Mode 4 was Marshalls answer to the scooped Nu Metal crowd, hoping to compete with Mesa Rec's. the AVT series was aimed at competing with Line 6. The rest is aimed at players on a budget, or bedroom amps.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

Dumb question alert::

Joneser... the Slash and the Silver Jubilee are basically the same amp. Yes?

I saw a Slash Halfstack on ebay the other day... head AND slant cabinet. I kicked myself 'cause I'm a just poor boy nobody loves me. I think it was about $1200 with 6 days to go.

-Matt

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

Yeah, the Silver Jubilees were the 25Th Ann. Marshalls released in 87. They also issued them in black in 88, called the Custom Series. Then, Slash made the 2555 hundred watt his signature amps. All had Drake Transformers. Some early DSL's had Drake transformers too. Those are the best trannies for Marshalls, and they recently started using Axiom transformers, which look cheaper.

That's the problem. Marshall keeps cutting corners, while their competition starts putting better quality into their amps. Many modern boutique companies are using Mercury Magnetics transformers, which ironically are down the street from me. That company reverse engineered all the greatest power transformers, basically stealing the best ideas, and making the best 'main parts' of guitar amps in the business.
Much of the reason why guys say "older is better" is because the main components of amps were higher quality. The newer amps cut corners by giving you cheaper transformers, PC board mounted tube sockets, and PC board mounted pots. Every corner you cut, hurts the fidelity of the amp. That's why people pay more for handbuilt amps.

 

[Spoonman]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

Say what you will, I still think that my DSL is a very good amp, It can hang with anything else I've ever heard, but then, it had a new and better transformer added, and that made alot of difference.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

[ I think Marshall would be well served to reproduce some of their legendary circuits in a PTP configuration, and charge a little more money for them. If it's between a $1300 TSL, or a hand wired copy of a JCM or Plexi for $1600....I'd bet there would be a fair amount of people willing to pay the difference.[/QUOTE]


They are now offering a line of PTP AMPS. Check this link. If it doesn't take you to the PTP page, do a search for "hand wired"

The other optin is to seek out a used one. Depending onwhat you are looking for they can be had as long as you are prepared to pay the price. I am currently considering eithr the 1087 Plxi RI or the JCM 45. I have not been able to find these two side by side yet.

http://www.marshallamps.com/images/products/hw/hw.html

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

YeahThen, Slash made the 2555 hundred watt his signature amps. .

Gotcha. What's a 2553?

 

[slightly_rude]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

Gotcha. What's a 2553?

That's the short box Silver Jubilee head. Same circuit and components as 2550 but in a narrower cabinet.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

I've never been a real tube snob or P to P snob, only because I realize that a great amp is more often the result of a well thought out design....not necessarily the components.

Yup.

There's plenty of well designed PCB amps out there, just like there's plenty of rats nest PTP amps. One is not neccissarily better than the other.

 

[Mojoe01]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

How do you guys feel about the 1987X reissue?

 

[yes-fan]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

i will tell you one thing. the mode 4 really bites. its sounds like a bloody solidsate. i have a tsl and a jcm 900 and i love those but the mode 4 is inferior.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

I think Marshall is doing just fine, cranking out those great sounding reissues and DSL and TSL's. Even better, now that they'll offer those P to P recreations. I can only imagine that those will be priced way out there. Also, I noticed on the new ads that they are using that vintage tan grillcloth on some new cabs. I always loved that look, but most vintage cabs are stained, trashed, or expensive.

 

[Closed Eye]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

I'm a huge fan of the MG series so I'm the last guy you'd ask about this kind of thing
( but I'ma gittin' my two cents in dagnabbit! ).
Although I'm sure most of you would consider the MG's to be substandard solidstate pieces of crap, but they work for me.
To tell the truth, I'm actually finding the transition from a solidstate Marshall to a tubed Marshall (even the AVT) series to be quite difficult, since I'm so used to the dynamics (or lack thereof) of the solidstate technology. Tube amps are strange, weird, and wonderful all at the same time...almost too much to bear...
Anyway, the general thing I'm hearing about buying new Marshall's is "DON'T!", at which point I'm lead in the direction of a late 80s or early 90s piece of gear by Jim & Co. that's made better, sounds better, and holds up better. That, or to a completely differant brand...

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

i will tell you one thing. the mode 4 really bites. its sounds like a bloody solidsate. i have a tsl and a jcm 900 and i love those but the mode 4 is inferior.

+1, me and my friend were playing at a music store and we were fighting over who got to NOT play the mode 4, haha. because they're were only 2 halfstacks there and they were away from all the other amps, the other one was a dsl100 which was definately worth fighting over! by the way, I played the dsl100 but have not played the 50 watt version, are these amps very similar to each other? I own the dsl 401 and have tried the dsl100 and I love both, so I'm guessing the 50s awesome as well.(and yes I know the 401 has el84s and the 100 has el34s but they are both killer)

 

[Xeromus]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

but i now feel that both gibson and marshall are out to take my money in exchange for mediocre name brand products.

you've hit the nail on the head. I still don't understand how so many people can be blind to this fact.

With that said, the DSL 50 is a damn nice amp I must say. It may be my next buy. Only problem is, quite often I come across much cheaper amps that sound better, oops! I still like the Marshall a lot though.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Whats up with the new Marshall Lineup? Do they make good amps anymore?

i think also a contributor, is the effects, i mean, they've been riding the same ones for awhile now, but the difference is, the old ones were designed by ear, and the new ones are calculated mathematically to duplicate the sound, not too much by ear. I'd say for modern marshall ISH sound, well, the vox valvetronix really outdoes most new marshalls, same tubes, but they really did a lot more testing in the shop on them before they started shipping them out. Also, is it just me or are marshall amps extremely quiet? I know wattage isn't necessarily a linear thing, but my little 40 watt hot rod can totally drown an avt150, BEFORE the hot rod starts to overdrive, its kinda sad