What's your experience with

[Doc Holiday]

birdseye maple necks? This kind of ties into Phil_104's thread below about the lite ash strat. I've been looking at getting a lite ash tele but the neck has been holding me up. The local GC by me said the chain doesn't carry them anymore because the necks had a tendency to warp. I've searched the net and haven't found much to back that up. Warmoth says specifically in their description of birdseye maple necks that there is a rumor on the net that they tend to warp but they haven't found this to be true. In the thread for the lite ash strat there were a number of people saying their necks twisted and such. Soooooo I'm looking for everyone's experience, good or bad, with birdseye maple necks and any words of wisdom or gems of information. Thanks all!

 

[Sanford]

Re: What's your experience with

I, too, have heard this about birdseye maple necks. Yet, for several decades they have been used on guitars with higher price tags (especially with more "eyes"). I've always wondered if the decorative grain patterns of birdseye, flame, spalt, or quilt had anything to do with the structural stability of the wood. Or was it merely a cosmetic effect?

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: What's your experience with

Take what people at Guitar Center say with a grain of salt! 99% of their employees know about 10% of their products. If the neck has a lousy finish then that might allow moisture or if the neck was not heated before finishing or whatever.

What really matters is the cut. If it's flatsawn or quartersawn. Birdseye is very pretty and so is flame maple but they are usually flatsawn. This is the way the neck wood is cut. There is a tonal difference with neither one being better than the other.

Quartersawn wood has vertical grain patterns and flatsawn are horizontal. Quartersawn necks are much stronger, harder. Usually good for guitars with heavy gauge strings or dually adjusted truss rods. They are brighter than flatsawn. The flatsawn necks are softer wood and are not as bright.

Whenever you look at a neck you can more or less tell the quality. Look for consistency in the finish and fretting. Make sure the finish is even. Leave a guitar out in your car in scorching heat for a few hours and you might see what a warped neck looks like.

I bet half of the people who return those guitars are the ones who leave the guitars in their car in hot and humid climates. Then they return them to GC for a refund.

 

[J Moose]

Re: What's your experience with

I avoid it.

Many many years ago a friend bought a new Music Man 4-string with a birdseye neck, not even 6 months old he left for a ski trip & came back a week or two later to find that the neck warped. Not front to back, but side to side... the "G" was where the D used to be and the "E" was hanging out in space. He left the bass in a hard case, in his bedroom and the whole house was heated because his little brother & grandparents were there...

MM replaced his neck without a squabble... but admitted that birdseye is prone to the pretzel act & gave him a flamed neck. I've heard a few other builders like Suhr & Sadowsky say the same about birdseye.

Wood, even when properly dried, always wants to bend & revert to it's original state. Doesn't matter if it's a 2x4 in the wall or a guitar neck. Birdseye doesn't have much of a grain pattern to give it strength, so, it's more prone to twisting even if it's been cured & hardfinished.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: What's your experience with

I wouldn't put too much stock in rumors of individual accounts where people have had neck problems. They occur with the same frequency as any other neck wood and most likely is due to flaws in the manufacturing process, climatic conditions in which the guitar has been or probably some anomalous condition.

Warmouth says this "There seems to be a recurring rumor that Birdseye maple is unstable and not suited to guitar necks. Having made tens of thousands of Birdseye necks, we can assure you that it is no different in stability than plain maple."

I have seen neck warping in plain maple necks more frequently than birdseye. In my opinion there is nothing more unstable about birdseye than flamed, quilted or plain maple.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: What's your experience with

Birdseye is crap!
And it was considered a flawed grain in old times.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: What's your experience with

Birdseye is crap!
And it was considered a flawed grain in old times.

I'm not saying it's crap, but Rid is correct about it being flawed. Both flame and birdseye maple are flawed timbers, and although they can be very beautiful to look at, there are those who believe that it does not sound as good as plain. Supposedly when Gibson were making L.P's back in the 50's, most flame maple tops were painted due to the flaws! I do know a guy who had a very early Gold top, and in the early 80's had the top stripped off to be re-painted. He said underneath was the most stunning piece of flamed maple he'd ever seen. So for all the "chumps" who own a '59.... you got a POS flawed and second quality guitar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So give it to me, I love guitars with seecond quality tops that should have been painted

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: What's your experience with

Birdseye is crap!
And it was considered a flawed grain in old times.

So is flame, quilted, spalted & figured maple crap too?

 

[scottish]

Re: What's your experience with

One piece figured maple necks, flame or birdseye should be avoided at all costs. It will cost you more for a one piece and its no where near as strong as a 2 piece figured neck.

If you want the figured maple, get a 2 piece, it is way stronger. Personally i havent had any problems with 2 piece necks warping but i have seen a beautiful one piece birdseye get mangled under string tension.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: What's your experience with

So is flame, quilted, spalted & figured maple crap too?

They're all flaws in the wood. In fact, spalt is rot.

Supposedly when Gibson were making L.P's back in the 50's, most flame maple tops were painted due to the flaws!

That's not entirely true.

While for CENTURIES figured wood has long been admired for it's aesthetic qualities- and possibly for tonal value- the backs of many fine violins of Stradivarius and Guarini have flamed maple backs- Gibson had settled on the opaque gold color- not as a method to cover "flawed" maple, but because Les Paul wanted a gold colored guitar.

Gibson, at that time, was still doing plenty of figured top backs and sides (and even necks).

 

[J Moose]

Re: What's your experience with

So is flame, quilted, spalted & figured maple crap too?

Splated wood, that's mold & rot that's somewhat stabilized.

Seems like spalted tops are all the rage now, and some of them do look cool... but I just wonder about the tone & how it'll hold up. I mean, the wood has gone fungal. That's not so good...

 

[uOpt]

Re: What's your experience with

Warmoth probably uses much higher quality wood than the average guitar factory. That means both more naturally grown (read: older) and a less hurried drying process.

Warmoth also likes to default to the more extensive truss rod constructions.

I'd say the difference is right there.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: What's your experience with

birdseye maple necks? This kind of ties into Phil_104's thread below about the lite ash strat. I've been looking at getting a lite ash tele but the neck has been holding me up. The local GC by me said the chain doesn't carry them anymore because the necks had a tendency to warp. I've searched the net and haven't found much to back that up. Warmoth says specifically in their description of birdseye maple necks that there is a rumor on the net that they tend to warp but they haven't found this to be true. In the thread for the lite ash strat there were a number of people saying their necks twisted and such. Soooooo I'm looking for everyone's experience, good or bad, with birdseye maple necks and any words of wisdom or gems of information. Thanks all!

I own a Lite Ash Strat, and the neck does not warp. What the heck were these people doing with their Strat? Not checking the neck warp every 6 months or so and not adjusting the truss rod? Or doing it wrong?

The feel of the Lite Ash neck is tremendous. Honestly if/when I go pro, I'm going to collect them because I love the feel that much.

Anyways, even if it did warp or twist beyond use, there should be a warranty on it, if I'm not mistaken, against flaws in workmanship, but I'd check with Fender. When in doubt, buy the MF 24month warranty.

If not for the fact that I bought a Schecter C-1 Classic (due to knowing that I didn't need two guitars with the same pickups if I wanted variety and versatility), I would've bought a Lite Ash Tele instead, without even a second thought.

Anyways, just so you know....

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: What's your experience with

So is flame, quilted, spalted & figured maple crap too

Yeah....it is...
All the guitars I had with too much of either always warped when the seasons changed, more than my evenly grained ones...
It is pretty...but it is also crap...

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: What's your experience with

Yeah....it is...
All the guitars I had with too much of either always warped when the seasons changed, more than my evenly grained ones...
It is pretty...but it is also crap...

It's a good thing I never buy birdseye guitars then! I've never seen a neck go bad but I guess the problem is more widespread than I thought. These things are good to know, thanks.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: What's your experience with

Yeah....it is...
All the guitars I had with too much of either always warped when the seasons changed, more than my evenly grained ones...
It is pretty...but it is also crap...

That doesn't make any sense at all. I've had an Ovation CS247 for 4-5 years that is quilted maple top, and I've never had it warp, and it's not been taken very good care of at all (and miraculously it has survived my abuse). The Schecter C-1 Classic that I own was in the music store for as long as I can remember, and it is quilt maple top, and never warped. Why don't we hear more reports about all the other maple on maple necks Fender and others sell? Somehow I smell some :bsflag:

It's a good thing I never buy birdseye guitars then! I've never seen a neck go bad but I guess the problem is more widespread than I thought. These things are good to know, thanks.

I've never seen a neck go bad, either. Here's a list of guitars that are sold with birdseye necks:

- Ovation Celebrity Birdseye guitar
- Dean Exotic Birdseye Maple guitar
- Ovation Celebrity Deluxe
- Fender Lite Ash "family" (Stratocaster and Telecaster)
- Gitane Selmer Style Jazz Guitar

I haven't seen widespread reports. The Lite Ash Telecaster has 55 reviews on MF and not one have the word "warp" in them (had to search quickly, as my time is limited). As for the Lite Ash Stratocaster, it has 49 reviews, and only one has the word "warp" in it, but we don't know what warp he means, and if he did anything to correct it. I've seen the darnest people out there who play well not know anything about how to setup their guitar, so you never know if it holds any weight or not. None of the other guitars have reviews on MF that has the word "warp" in it.

I'm not saying you guys are all liars, I just can't believe it until I see it, that's all....

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: What's your experience with

That doesn't make any sense at all. I've had an Ovation CS247 for 4-5 years that is quilted maple top, and I've never had it warp, and it's not been taken very good care of at all (and miraculously it has survived my abuse). The Schecter C-1 Classic that I own was in the music store for as long as I can remember, and it is quilt maple top, and never warped. Why don't we hear more reports about all the other maple on maple necks Fender and others sell? Somehow I smell some :bsflag:



I've never seen a neck go bad, either. Here's a list of guitars that are sold with birdseye necks:

- Ovation Celebrity Birdseye guitar
- Dean Exotic Birdseye Maple guitar
- Ovation Celebrity Deluxe
- Fender Lite Ash "family" (Stratocaster and Telecaster)
- Gitane Selmer Style Jazz Guitar

I haven't seen widespread reports. The Lite Ash Telecaster has 55 reviews on MF and not one have the word "warp" in them (had to search quickly, as my time is limited). As for the Lite Ash Stratocaster, it has 49 reviews, and only one has the word "warp" in it, but we don't know what warp he means, and if he did anything to correct it. I've seen the darnest people out there who play well not know anything about how to setup their guitar, so you never know if it holds any weight or not. None of the other guitars have reviews on MF that has the word "warp" in it.

I'm not saying you guys are all liars, I just can't believe it until I see it, that's all....

Who knows. We need some expert luthiers to clear all this up! Ed Roman guitars says birdseye maple is crap and Warmouth claims it's perfectly good. Ed Roman still sells birdseye guitars so I want to believe Warmouth more. I just don't know. Please some qualified people shed some light here!

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: What's your experience with

I'm not saying you guys are all liars, I just can't believe it until I see it, that's all....

Man I have played for almost as long as you have lived
Have owned more guitars then you probally ever will....work with them as well.
Maple is more stiff without flames or quilt.....it also depends on how long the piece have been allowed to dry up...
But who cares??
Not many will say this, as they probally have intrest in these kinds of grain.....they sell and looks good.
I like flames and quilt, birdseye and all that...but if I am to buy one....then it better be moderate or I will find something else with a more even grain.

 

[wanmei1]

Re: What's your experience with

Man I have played for almost as long as you have lived
Have owned more guitars then you probally ever will....work with them as well.
Maple is more stiff without flames or quilt.....it also depends on how long the piece have been allowed to dry up...
But who cares??
Not many will say this, as they probally have intrest in these kinds of grain.....they sell and looks good.
I like flames and quilt, birdseye and all that...but if I am to buy one....then it better be moderate or I will find something else with a more even grain.

Hey Man, Read what Rid has just written above.
He doesn't BS. - check his other posts.
I think you will find that he genuinely knows what he's talking about.
You migh'nt like or want to hear what he's saying but...........
I have no experience with flames or quilt but have had a birdseye neck warp pretty bad on me.
I think you must at least consider the possibility that although they look good there is still a reasonable amount of doubt concerning their durability.
Just some more food for thought.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: What's your experience with

Hey Man, Read what Rid has just written above.
He doesn't BS. - check his other posts.
I think you will find that he genuinely knows what he's talking about.
You migh'nt like or want to hear what he's saying but...........
I have no experience with flames or quilt but have had a birdseye neck warp pretty bad on me.
I think you must at least consider the possibility that although they look good there is still a reasonable amount of doubt concerning their durability.
Just some more food for thought.

Surely you're not telling me, however, that someone who bought such an instrument as a Lite Ash and then had the neck "pretzel" didn't post a nasty review on the instrument. I mean, they were made in 2004. Where are the tons of nasty reviews from angry owners of these pretzels? I know for sure that if there was any way I could post a review, on Harmony Central, much less every music store online that was selling them, I'd be posting nasty reviews. I'd also be calling FMI.

This is assuming, of course, that the owner(s) were taking good care of them. You can't expect a guitar to withstand, for example, staying in the back seat of your car without a case in the heat of summer, or in your trunk without a case, etc, insert your favorite abuse type here.