Where Gibson went wrong

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

The problem with Gibson is that they've lost the prestige. Musicians know what they're putting out is shoddy quality control - something that's completely unacceptable for what they're charging.

I could care less about Gibson because I'm a PRS convert, but the fact is this. If Gibson wants to stick around and be competitive in the future, they really need to start upping their game. They need to make guitars that have the fit, finish and playability of PRS. Only then, will folks be going out of their way to own them at the prices they're asking for. The basic designs of their main models have all been legendary: the SG, Les Paul, Explorer, V and ES series. They can make big changes in sales by making small changes to their main designs. The Explorer Pro is a great example of that. They need to do that more often. Take a lesson from Fender, Gibson, because they realize that there is value in tradition and that the guitar consumer base is traditional.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

The problem with Gibson is that they've lost the prestige. Musicians know what they're putting out is shoddy quality control - something that's completely unacceptable for what they're charging.

I could care less about Gibson because I'm a PRS convert, but the fact is this. If Gibson wants to stick around and be competitive in the future, they really need to start upping their game. They need to make guitars that have the fit, finish and playability of PRS. Only then, will folks be going out of their way to own them at the prices they're asking for. The basic designs of their main models have all been legendary: the SG, Les Paul, Explorer, V and ES series. They can make big changes in sales by making small changes to their main designs. The Explorer Pro is a great example of that. They need to do that more often. Take a lesson from Fender, Gibson, because they realize that there is value in tradition and that the guitar consumer base is traditional.

The average non-internet forum dwelling guitar player knows almost nothing about gear. All these non-internet forum non-gurus know is that Slash and Zakk Wylde play Les Pauls. Actually, I just grabbed my last copy of GW and the first ad you see when you open the magazine is Slash with a Les Paul. The whole magazine is full of dudes (Jerry Cantrell, Alex Lifeson, Mastodon, Derek Trucks) holding Gibsons. There's also alot of Ibanez (it's the Vai issue), Jacksons (Lamb of God, various shredders), and ESP. The only dude holding a PRS is Chad Kroeger.

Further, a friend of mine is the local PRS dealer and he says that the majority of people who come into his store have never heard of PRS, so it's a constant educational process to teach them about the guitars.

The fact is that as long as the majority of dudes in Guitar World are seen holding Gibsons, Gibson is going to keep selling guitars to people who don't hang out on the internet nerding up on internet wisdom.

Further, now that the Nu-Metal PRS+Rectifier thing has died down you don't tend to see alot of PRS threads anymore. PRS even has a bit of a stigma in some circles because of it, though not as much of a stigma as the Rectifier.

While the truth of the matter may be that PRS builds a superior guitar, the truth also is that 1) they don't sound like a Les Paul, and 2) people don't want them because they don't say Gibson on the headstock.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

The average non-internet forum dwelling guitar player knows almost nothing about gear. All these non-internet forum non-gurus know is that Slash and Zakk Wylde play Les Pauls. Actually, I just grabbed my last copy of GW and the first ad you see when you open the magazine is Slash with a Les Paul. The whole magazine is full of dudes (Jerry Cantrell, Alex Lifeson, Mastodon, Derek Trucks) holding Gibsons. There's also alot of Ibanez (it's the Vai issue), Jacksons (Lamb of God, various shredders), and ESP. The only dude holding a PRS is Chad Kroeger.

Further, a friend of mine is the local PRS dealer and he says that the majority of people who come into his store have never heard of PRS, so it's a constant educational process to teach them about the guitars.

The fact is that as long as the majority of dudes in Guitar World are seen holding Gibsons, Gibson is going to keep selling guitars to people who don't hang out on the internet nerding up on internet wisdom.

Further, now that the Nu-Metal PRS+Rectifier thing has died down you don't tend to see alot of PRS threads anymore. PRS even has a bit of a stigma in some circles because of it, though not as much of a stigma as the Rectifier.

While the truth of the matter may be that PRS builds a superior guitar, the truth also is that 1) they don't sound like a Les Paul, and 2) people don't want them because they don't say Gibson on the headstock.

I see what you are saying, but don't totally agree with it. I think that your argument that only Chad plays a PRS, shows that gibson is not going after the same market as PRS. While gibson is trying to appeal to the masses, and pump out guitars to sell, PRS is a player's company. While Gibson will endorse anything that is popular (Jonas Brothers from cying out loud), PRS will endorse players that deserve to be (Santana, DiMeola, Hiland). Personally, I would rather have a guitar endorsed by DiMeola than Slash any day. Seems to me that the artist that back up the prs signature models actually care about what gets put on the shelf with their name on it, and so does Paul.

If we want to say where gibson went wrong, maybe it was when they picked their demographics. Now they cater to these groups essentially : People who want it because it's a gibson, rich kids who play guitar hero and want a guitar that looks like their controller, or people who have 6k to flame on a custom shop (Blues lawyers). Gibson is making it harder for the real musician to justify buying one of their products. I know some of you guys on here will argue this, and I know that there are gibson models that are worth the cash, and that they are the same price as PRS and other guitars.... but man, I feel like they are giving up on the guy who plays at a bar every friday. The low blow for me was knowing you could get a custom shop gibson at Best-Buy : way to show you care about customer service. Talking from personal experience, I think there is a reason why I see a 4k PRS and don't think it is overpriced, but I think a 2500$ LP is (and I have owned gibsons). Like I said, just my opinion.

Also, I think the problem is not that people who don't hang on the internet don't know about different companies. It's the general problem that will make people listen to the name more than their ears or their hands. If it wasn't for mass media like guitar world, people would actually go to the store and buy what feels best. When I started playing guitar, in 7th grade, I knew nothing about guitar, and went in the store to buy my first electric with only my ears and hands. I walked out with a godin, caus it was the best in the price range.

Maybe they should spend less money on advertising in video games, and start my R&D like PRS.
 
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Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I see what you are saying, but don't totally agree with it. I think that your argument that only Chad plays a PRS, shows that gibson is not going after the same market as PRS. While gibson is trying to appeal to the masses, and pump out guitars to sell, PRS is a player's company. While Gibson will endorse anything that is popular (Jonas Brothers from cying out loud), PRS will endorse players that deserve to be (Santana, DiMeola, Hiland). Personally, I would rather have a guitar endorsed by DiMeola than Slash any day. Seems to me that the artist that back up the prs signature models actually care about what gets put on the shelf with their name on it, and so does Paul.

Dude, do you remember that Tremonti and Chris Henderson are PRS endorsers?
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Dude, do you remember that Tremonti and Chris Henderson are PRS endorsers?

I do, and I don't really see how that would change what I said. I actually think both those guys are interested in the guitars that have their names on it, and if Paul feels like he want's to make custom models based on their preferences, why not. Please notice that I said ''personally'' before making the statement that I would rather have a DiMeola endorsed guitar than Slash.

For the record, the Henderson model is unique to the PRS line (3 pickup SC model, I dig it), and the Tremonti SE is one of the better guitars in it's price range.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

How did we get from Gibson designs to Gibson quality flaws?

Because that's a major part of where Gibson went wrong??? Gibson didn't become a household name from having dead spots, finishing blems, sharp frets and misaligned binding.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Because that's a major part of where Gibson went wrong??? Gibson didn't become a household name from having dead spots, finishing blems, sharp frets and misaligned binding.

+1. It seems lately it is the greatest concern of buyers who stay away from gibson.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

i agree with the gibson quality flaws. the only reason i bought my 08 Lp standard (the one with the bourns system) was because the historic versions they were selling had flaws all over them. the final nail, if you will, came when i was playing an LP i almost bought and then i noticed that the pick up rings were not the right size, they were too big and they were buckling, and the trapezoids on the fretboard were not done right. i bought the one i have because it played, sounded and felt better then the other ones, but it actually came down to which one had less flaws. i mean if I'm gonna drop some serious cash i not only must the instrument sound good, it also helps if it looks good.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Because that's a major part of where Gibson went wrong??? Gibson didn't become a household name from having dead spots, finishing blems, sharp frets and misaligned binding.

It's part of the charm and why people can think they their Gibson is better than everybody else's :)
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

It's part of the charm and why people can think they their Gibson is better than everybody else's :)

I understand the appeal of this, but to me, personality should come from differences in paint burst color, wood grain, and other variable that don't affect playability like sharp frets and crooked knobs.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I do, and I don't really see how that would change what I said. I actually think both those guys are interested in the guitars that have their names on it, and if Paul feels like he want's to make custom models based on their preferences, why not. Please notice that I said ''personally'' before making the statement that I would rather have a DiMeola endorsed guitar than Slash.

For the record, the Henderson model is unique to the PRS line (3 pickup SC model, I dig it), and the Tremonti SE is one of the better guitars in it's price range.

I'm not bashing PRS guitars or their quality, in fact I really like them, but you said that PRS only endorses players that deserves to be endorsed and to me Tremonti and Henderson aren't great players. When it comes to endorsement, I'd guess we would agree that Fender and Gibson clearly win the game, but that does not means that all the other players who endorses other companies are lame, it's just that Gibson and Fender have more relevant endorsers than any other company.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I understand the appeal of this, but to me, personality should come from differences in paint burst color, wood grain, and other variable that don't affect playability like sharp frets and crooked knobs.

Yeah, right :) Haha. You a communist or what? :) How can you go and damage American businesses so badly? Didn't you read the reports how much more precise Gibson manufactures their guitars than they did in '59?

Seriously, all Gibsons I own or ever owned had flaws, but none affected playability or had a direct impact on sound.

I understand that people expect a flawless instrument for the price, but when it comes to playability or sound impact of the flaws I don't think things are as bad as people make them. Sticky neck syndrome is probably the most annoying one.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Gibson seems to be going wrong in the same place that General Motors went wrong. When you ignore the quality of the product and think people will flock to your brand because they always have, you lose the focus on what got you there in the first place.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Gibson seems to be going wrong in the same place that General Motors went wrong. When you ignore the quality of the product and think people will flock to your brand because they always have, you lose the focus on what got you there in the first place.

Not sure.

People don't strand in the middle of nowhere when the guitar goes on strike.

Most Gibson flaws are things that make you send it back for warranty replacement, and Gibson clearly hopes that a lot of people don't notice, don't know their rights or don't play the thing in the first place. Plus more fall out of warranty before a real customer buys them.

Gibson seems to work under a "10% returns accepted" policy, or some number above that. Pretty standard for consumer businesses that don't need to send the stuff back to Asia.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

For starters, I'd like them to take the Traditional and Studio LP ideas a little further. Go back to a full solid piece or two of mahogany on all their LP backs, and also offer IN A SEPARATE SERIES the chambered models. No "there's no lightweight mahogany" excuse. Also that they start offering aesthetically stripped down models, but not exactly BFG stripped down. Something that actually looks finished, but without the fancy pants stuff.

I'd also like them to bring back the LP Standard Faded. I had a thing for that guitar....and it was a pretty good value at $1500-1600 back when Standards were around $2000.

I never understood why Gibson lately has been trying to implement so much high tech gizmos into their guitars (Bourns potentiometers, easy swap back loaded pickups, auto-tune tuners, etc) when the low tech part, the wood and strings, the IMPORTANT PART, have been criticized so much, and sometimes, for good reason. It's like trying to put a 427 Cobra Jet engine into, say...an antique Daimler Benz Carriage.

I seriously think it would be fair to pay 2000-3000 dollars for a pro-level instrument if they gave my money's worth.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Because that's a major part of where Gibson went wrong??? Gibson didn't become a household name from having dead spots, finishing blems, sharp frets and misaligned binding.

I disagree. Just look at any late 60s or 70s era Les Paul. Come to think of it, 80s Les Pauls aren't known for being stellar ether. Nor the 90s. Or turn of the century models.

And while I know that the 50s are regarded as the golden era of Les Paul building, I'm sure that if you inspected any 50s era Les Paul you'd find a laundry list of flaws similar to those that exist on any model of Les Paul from 1968 to 2009. There's a reason that they were modifying the build every year from 1952 to 1960... and it wasn't because the guitar was perfect the first time out.

In short, when you buy a Gibson you're buying a handmade instrument, and as such no two Les Pauls will ever be identical. My 1969 Les Paul has way more finishing flaws than my 2008 Les Paul, but if you stop looking for flaws long enough to actually play the guitar you'll realize that the flaws do nothing to impact the sound of the guitar.
 
Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I see what you are saying, but don't totally agree with it. I think that your argument that only Chad plays a PRS, shows that gibson is not going after the same market as PRS.

I only pointed out Chad because he was the only dude in the magazine that's playing one. While guys like Santana and DiMeola may be killer guitar players, the average kid isn't listening to DiMeola or Santana and dreaming about owning their guitars.

If we want to say where gibson went wrong, maybe it was when they picked their demographics. Now they cater to these groups essentially : People who want it because it's a gibson, rich kids who play guitar hero and want a guitar that looks like their controller, or people who have 6k to flame on a custom shop (Blues lawyers). Gibson is making it harder for the real musician to justify buying one of their products.

I see alot of non-rich kids playing Epi Les Pauls and non-rich adults replacing them with Gibsons. Your average Gibson user isn't rocking a $6000 re-issue, he's rocking a run of the mill Standard... quite possibly used.

Although I think everyone would like to see Gibson's quality control improve, I don't think they're actually failing at anything. PRS hasn't taken over and driven Gibson out of business like everyone thought they would. If anything, PRS has taken over the Super Strat niche and Gibson is carrying on as always.
 
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