Where's The Beef??

[Blackbasser]

Howdy gang. Looking for some recommendations. I have a thin ash bodied guitar, and every humbucker I've tried in the bridge sounds pretty shrill, with very little bottom end. I know the body doesn't help matters, but hoping for some help from you folks. It was suggested to me to try a Custom Custom, but was hoping for some other ideas. I enjoy a high gain chunky tone (a la muted metal sound). I needs mah beef!!
TIA

 

[Artie]

Hard to beat the Perpetual Burn. Punchy, crunchy and not too bright. It's one of my new favs.

And welcome to the forum/

 

[misterwhizzy]

I'd consider the PATB-1. It's got a very full tone throughout, and you get sustain forever. On paper, I think a PATB-2 might be a better fit, but I can't recommend that, as I haven't played one.

 

[GuitarStv]

Tone Zone

 

[alex1fly]

Air Zone? It's beefy in everything I've tried. There's only so much you can do to overcome the natural sound of the guitar, though. Bigger strings, thicker picks, EQ pedal all help.

 

[Blackbasser]

OK for reference, when I was 8 years old, (1976) I got a 1965 Fender Mustang for Christmas. When I was a teen, I made the terrible mistake of hot rodding the crap out of it. So I had a Kahler trem flush mounted, and a humbucker in the bridge, and single in the neck. As stated, this one is the ash body, with a 22 fret maple one piece neck. I tried a Fury ZP20 to try to get as much power out of the humbucker (reads out at 19.5k ohms). Powerful, but way too shrill. I also tried an old Bill Lawrence XL500L (reads at 7.5k ohms). Also very shrill. I really want to tame the highs and add some beef in the bottom. It's a sweet little guitar that I'll never get rid of, mostly due to sentimental reasons, but I want it to still be functional. I've switched out all my other guitars to EMG 85's, or Blackouts. (Tried to upload a photo, but files size is too large)

 

[Blackbasser]

Hard to beat the Perpetual Burn. Punchy, crunchy and not too bright. It's one of my new favs.

And welcome to the forum/

Thanks for the kind welcome!!

 

[Blackbasser]

Air Zone? It's beefy in everything I've tried. There's only so much you can do to overcome the natural sound of the guitar, though. Bigger strings, thicker picks, EQ pedal all help.

I understand the size and wood of this guitar limits what I can get out of it tonally. Because of the small stature of this guitar, I can't really put too heavy a string on it. I do use Cobalt Slinky's on it, and 2mm Delron picks (use on everything). Flush mounted the Kahler to try and get some sustain and resonance.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

The Invader is another plenty beefy pu, like a wild yak. It's voiced to emphasize lows and mids more, which may help with the shrillness problem you're having.

 

[Blackbasser]

The Invader is another plenty beefy pu, like a wild yak. It's voiced to emphasize lows and mids more, which may help with the shrillness problem you're having.

Never heard an Invader I liked. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[pskorz]

I’m thinking a JB could work well.
or a dimarzio super distortion? I have that in the bridge of an ash strat with a maple neck and floyd. It has a nice sounding high end, but good beefy lows and mids. Very well-rounded sound.
Or a super 3 if you need some more added low-end definition.

 

[Mincer]

I'd go Black Winter. Certainly not shrill, and much tighter for metal than the CC.

 

[dystrust]

OK for reference, when I was 8 years old, (1976) I got a 1965 Fender Mustang for Christmas. When I was a teen, I made the terrible mistake of hot rodding the crap out of it. So I had a Kahler trem flush mounted, and a humbucker in the bridge, and single in the neck. As stated, this one is the ash body, with a 22 fret maple one piece neck. I tried a Fury ZP20 to try to get as much power out of the humbucker (reads out at 19.5k ohms). Powerful, but way too shrill. I also tried an old Bill Lawrence XL500L (reads at 7.5k ohms). Also very shrill. I really want to tame the highs and add some beef in the bottom. It's a sweet little guitar that I'll never get rid of, mostly due to sentimental reasons, but I want it to still be functional. I've switched out all my other guitars to EMG 85's, or Blackouts. (Tried to upload a photo, but files size is too large)

Do you have a Kahler cam system, or one of their vintage of Floyd bridges? If you have a cam system, does it have steel cam and rollers? If that's the case, you can knock off a ton of brightness by swapping to a set of brass rollers. I have a Kahler cam system on one of my Charvels, and I've tried every combination of steel and brass on it as those were the parts I had on hand. With steel cam & rollers, the only bridge pickup I liked in it was an Invader as it was shrieking bright with pretty much everything else. With brass cam & rollers the Invader was muddy, but most other pickups sounded decent. I currently have it set up brass / brass with a Custom Custom, but I'm going for a tone somewhere between EVH & Jerry Cantrell. I've previously had a Full Shred, JB, & Custom 5 in there and all were usable though the Custom 5 was a bit bright, thin, and scooped.

 

[Blackbasser]

Do you have a Kahler cam system, or one of their vintage of Floyd bridges? If you have a cam system, does it have steel cam and rollers? If that's the case, you can knock off a ton of brightness by swapping to a set of brass rollers. I have a Kahler cam system on one of my Charvels, and I've tried every combination of steel and brass on it as those were the parts I had on hand. With steel cam & rollers, the only bridge pickup I liked in it was an Invader as it was shrieking bright with pretty much everything else. With brass cam & rollers the Invader was muddy, but most other pickups sounded decent. I currently have it set up brass / brass with a Custom Custom, but I'm going for a tone somewhere between EVH & Jerry Cantrell. I've previously had a Full Shred, JB, & Custom 5 in there and all were usable though the Custom 5 was a bit bright, thin, and scooped.

It's a steel cam, and I just replaced the brass rollers. (The old ones actually had grooves worn in to them, and they didn't always roll.) The Kahler is actually inset in to the body, to try to get more resonance and sustain. I wish I could upload a picture, but they are all too large a file. And there's nothing wrong with getting a Jerry Cantrell sound.

 

[Top-L]

Tone Zone

This is the pickup that ibanez puts in all kinds of mid/high range guitars. Its thick.

 

[Top-L]

OK for reference, when I was 8 years old, (1976) I got a 1965 Fender Mustang for Christmas. When I was a teen, I made the terrible mistake of hot rodding the crap out of it. So I had a Kahler trem flush mounted, and a humbucker in the bridge, and single in the neck. As stated, this one is the ash body, with a 22 fret maple one piece neck. I tried a Fury ZP20 to try to get as much power out of the humbucker (reads out at 19.5k ohms). Powerful, but way too shrill. I also tried an old Bill Lawrence XL500L (reads at 7.5k ohms). Also very shrill. I really want to tame the highs and add some beef in the bottom. It's a sweet little guitar that I'll never get rid of, mostly due to sentimental reasons, but I want it to still be functional. I've switched out all my other guitars to EMG 85's, or Blackouts. (Tried to upload a photo, but files size is too large)

Ohh.. I just remembered something!

I had a similar experience with a new LTD guitar. It was shrill with whatever pickups I tried. So I checked the vol pot and it was 500K. I replaced with 250K, and it put the guitars sound "in the pocket". It just sounded "wrong" until I put in the 250K. Like I was fighting something. (Or maybe it was the other way around. I swapped from 500 to 250 or other way, dont remember.)

My guess is that the guitar had single coils or some Fender schmuck wiring and the pots are not suited to modern humbuckers. Get a multimeter and test.

 

[Blackbasser]

Ohh.. I just remembered something!

I had a similar experience with a new LTD guitar. It was shrill with whatever pickups I tried. So I checked the vol pot and it was 500K. I replaced with 250K, and it put the guitars sound "in the pocket". It just sounded "wrong" until I put in the 250K. Like I was fighting something. (Or maybe it was the other way around. I swapped from 500 to 250 or other way, dont remember.)

My guess is that the guitar had single coils or some Fender schmuck wiring and the pots are not suited to modern humbuckers. Get a multimeter and test.

Huh. Never considered this. The person who wired it many years ago was a pretty highly skilled Luthier. But I will check the volume pot and see what I'm dealing with. Thanks for the tip.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I'd recommend The Breed bridge from DiMarzio. Specifically designed for fattening thin-sounding trem guitars.
Discontinued years ago, but there might be a few still available in eBay. There were last Winter when last I checked.

Barring that, the AT-1 is based on the Breed (I think) and also very fat-sounding.
Designed for Andy Timmons' signature model which supposedly has a pickup positioned closer to the bridge than usual.

 

[dave74]

Maybe one of the JP-line of dmz. Dreamcatcher, Crunchlab, or Sonic Extacy all have darker voicings and tighter lows.
Stay away from D-sonic and Illuminators if you don't want those cutting highs in that guitar.

 

[Top-L]

Huh. Never considered this. The person who wired it many years ago was a pretty highly skilled Luthier. But I will check the volume pot and see what I'm dealing with. Thanks for the tip.

I remember the details now. The guitar in question, my LTD M400 is a single volume pot guitar. All my other guitars have had a tone control. Usually 500K + 500K.

The absence of tone control made guitar really bright in a way I wasn't accustomed to. Asked around and a 250K vol control is similar treble bleed as typical 500K+500K setup. Now it sounds similar to my other guitars.

The point is that the potentiometer values can make a big difference. You need to know what youre dealing with. If no pickup sounds correct, then it may be because of the pots. For all you know, it is wired with 1000K+1000K pots, or has one of the tone pots that disconnects from the circuit when its on full.